Removing old Oil and LPG systems when converting to renewables

[Worcester]

@Bunker triggered some questions on the way we currently do things!

I had presumed when replacing existing oil and lpg systems, since we would be messing around with oil boilers and oil tanks that there would be all sorts of regulations when ripping them out? If not then that makes our life easier!

I had also assumed similar regulations for lpg, hence we haven't touched them either, I had assumed (i.e. made an bum of me ) that i needed a qualified person to touch/remove the oil and/or lpg (gsr?) sides.

In bi-valent systems, we've always had the new systems installed or existing ones re-commissioned by oftec/gsr engineer, any clarifications or pointers to regulations much appreciated. - We know what we know, we also know we don't know much about oil or gas, so have stayed away

Any pointers as to which elements of the work need specialist resources would be much appreciated, i.e. what can or can't we as non oftec registered, non gsr certified touch / rip out of an oil or lpg system?

Thx.

 

[Ermintrude]

You need in both instances to have the equipment de commissioned, removal of the fuel is sufficient . So drain and remove oil and get tank lifted and same with LPG.

 

[Killy Bing]

Qualified person to remove the gas fuel sources.
so disconnecting from lpg bulk fuel store or gas meter.
then you can rip out appliance and pipework.

With auto changeover valves for lpg, well you can remove the fuel sources yourself, fire up the boiler or cooker to burn the lpg in the pipework.
but thats a bloody gray area if push came to shove so id still get a guy in for it anyway.

as for the oil you don't need sod all aslong as you don't have an oil spill.
then again id still get a guy with the equipment to decomission the line
on his head as it were.

Would it not pay you to take on a multi skilled/qualified engineer ?

 

[Ermintrude]

I doubt his liability insurance would pay out if he had an accident with oil. Needs to be stripped by a qualified. Bending over oil line isn't same as capping off , draining and removing oil . LPG is a bit dodge. Remove change over then rip out old lines, basement and plant room collects LPG..... Lads didn't know it collected on low spaces. Boom

 

[Worcester]

Would it not pay you to take on a multi skilled/qualified engineer ?

Already have a few as what we do is so varied, we just haven't bothered with the oil or gas side, because as I said, we only ever decommission and remove them.

Also one of the bigger challenges is their attitude !!!! I've had to send more than a few off site (never to be hired again) when they go around making comments like, "don't believe in all this renewable stuff, it never works you know..." so the shorter time I can have them on site the better! (and they don't seem to realise that they are losing and we are making a new maintenance opportunity..)

So until we can find a slightly more savvy one, we'll just carry on as we have been and use them ad-hoc to disconnect and make safe and then get them off site asap

 

[Ermintrude]

Call me ! I will come and work for u.

 

[Killy Bing]

Haha if things come to a crashing halt here worcester, i'll be knocking on your door with my tools in one hand and list of demands in the other ;?

i think i'll be shouting solar, biomass, forget the gas and install this panal'o glass

 

[tamz]

If you do work north of the border i might be interested if i'm doing nothing better that turns me on at the time. I never bite the hand that feeds :wink: Btw the forum is really pyssing me off as i can't even do line breaks anymore......................Dan?

 

[tamz]

Biomass is where the money is these days. Stupid cash for a fire, some badly fitted pipes and a big tank as long as you can get them the grants. Just did a new build where the guy who fitted a fire, 60ft of 1", 30ft of 3/4" 10 ft of 1/2", a couple of valves 5m of flue and a 1000litre buffer (2 days work for a man and boy) gets twice the cost of plumbing (3 bathrooms, kitchen, utility etc), heating (21 rads), drainage, gutters and leadwork. I need to learn this shyt and get on the list.

 

[Worcester]

Thanks guys, I know who to call if we get stuck

Most of our renewable heating work is within 1 1/2 hrs of Evesham, so bounded by the M5, M40, M42 (don't do the city) and west until they start talking a funny language

There's a lot of crap installs out there - see various posts on this forum !! Good ones don't take much longer to do, they just need designing right from the start.

With high end 35kW pellet boilers having a retail price the wrong side of £11k plus automatic feed systems, plus stores for 6-9 tonnes of pellets, plus 1000ltr buffers, plus 50m of underground pre-insulated pipe, plus upgrading all the rads because they were all undersized, plus full set of new heating controls (usually Honeywell EVO) and a new unvented cylinder, and then properly insulating the pipework, - it ain't cheap!! They do get all their money back from the RHI though, even allowing for borrowing the cash. Oh and have you seen how heavy those boilers are ?? - HDG Compact 35, retail £14,910 plus VAT, Weight: 650kg - You don't lift that into place with a plumber and his mate!!!

 

[Killy Bing]

Lifted a few in now worcester, hefty things.

if you end up in kent on a one off then shout me

and what the devil is your name!!!!

 

[Nostrum]

Out of interest, how do you move it?

I was thinking of pallet trucks, but they don't cope to well with rough ground?

 

[lame plumber]

I have yet to understand how ripping out a working system, upgrading all the rads etc etc is carbon neutral? Plus from my info, Ok it came off an oftec site, showing pellets and oil being comparable per kw at present why anyone would swap to a new system. If the government didnt suplement it, it wouldnt be viable, so in my mind why the hell is one sector of the population paying for another smaller sector to get a cheap install, sorry the communist in me doesnt think this is right, once the revolution occurs or whenever someone proves the way we are paying for green so called system is basically flawed, then the whole playing field will sort itself out and once more oil n gas will compete on level terms. Then there will also be a few accredited folk hanging in the trees, when the world sees what a scam has been run by the last couple of governments.
I can still replace the pin in the grenade if you wish

 

[Best]

Methinks these 'green' or 'renewable energy' changeovers are generally expensive. The government is creating employment & taxes on these products as well as pushing people to spend on something they perhaps would not have. Then these fancy things will pack up & have to be replaced - often soon. More money for government

 

[Worcester]

The government has no choice.... It has to hit the 2020 and 2050 targets for renewable energy or be fined squillions from EU. As a country we are years behind the rest of Europe in adopting renewables technologies, hence why most of the gear is coming from the continent, it's been tried and tested there for 20+years, it's only us that thinks its a 'new' idea. Knowing the quality of the equipment that we install I do not expect to see any significant problems, much less so than can be said for some oil and gas boiler manufacturers

And the ££ - well anyone can do it, the Renewable Heat INCENTIVE is just that, an incentive, the math is that if you are planning to replace your boiler, go renewables and we will make up the difference. The £ allowed has been calculated based on the cost of the install, less the fact that you were going to replace the system anyway, plus an allowance for interest on a loan, paid out over 7 years as that is the average time that people stay in a house. So you could finance it through the Green Deal, or private finance (which we can arrange for you), - the incentive to make use of renewables has been designed to be open to anyone. There are no barriers other than those that you put up yourself.

Interestingly a search on oftec, gave me 20 people in a 10 mile radius that could fit an oil boiler, and for Biomass on the MCS Website: 1 (us )

And within 20 miles, not a single one of the oftec people was certified for biomass..... - guess there must be an opportunity for you in your areas as well.

I don't know how many oftec engineers there are in the country , I do know there are currently only 519 companies that can install Biomass, and there are only 8 companies within a 30 mile radius that offer the services that we do and I have all their contact details as well.

Everyone to their own..

So

 

[lame plumber]

The government has no choice.... It has to hit the 2020 and 2050 targets for renewable energy or be fined squillions from EU. As a country we are years behind the rest of Europe in adopting renewables technologies, hence why most of the gear is coming from the continent, it's been tried and tested there for 20+years, it's only us that thinks its a 'new' idea. Knowing the quality of the equipment that we install I do not expect to see any significant problems, much less so than can be said for some oil and gas boiler manufacturers



And the ££ - well anyone can do it, the Renewable Heat INCENTIVE is just that, an incentive, the math is that if you are planning to replace your boiler, go renewables and we will make up the difference. The £ allowed has been calculated based on the cost of the install, less the fact that you were going to replace the system anyway, plus an allowance for interest on a loan, paid out over 7 years as that is the average time that people stay in a house. So you could finance it through the Green Deal, or private finance (which we can arrange for you), - the incentive to make use of renewables has been designed to be open to anyone. There are no barriers other than those that you put up yourself.

Interestingly a search on oftec, gave me 20 people in a 10 mile radius that could fit an oil boiler, and for Biomass on the MCS Website: 1 (us )

And within 20 miles, not a single one of the oftec people was certified for biomass..... - guess there must be an opportunity for you in your areas as well.

I don't know how many oftec engineers there are in the country , I do know there are currently only 519 companies that can install Biomass, and there are only 8 companies within a 30 mile radius that offer the services that we do and I have all their contact details as well.

Everyone to their own..

So

tis easy to see how communism and nazis came to power in years gone by just coz the eu makes a rule doesnt mean its right, after all the world has been cold and warmed up in the past without human assistance!

 

[Worcester]

My case rests.....

 

[lame plumber]

not sure how you can make a case on the world doing a warm up after an ice age previously, after all we werent around then to burn the fossil fuels that are supposed to be causing the problems???

 

[Worcester]

My case was for using oftec / gsr plumbers/engineers just to decommission and then get them off site asap.

The other stuff is what it is, I didn't make the rules, I just play by them, they same as you do with being GSR, the rules are the rules.