Rate my business plan

[Jamesjamie]

Your choice. But do you want to be the engineer that was trained by that other dodgy engineer, or the engineer that struggled at first but is now that awesome engineer? But like I said your choice.

What would be the ideal route for someone in my position then?

Yet we make the conscious effort not to do it, or be a part of it.

Yet we make the conscious effort not to do it, or be a part of it.

Personally, I feel Harvest's point about sticking with what you have demonstrated you are good at is very pertinent.

Surround yourself with a good, trusted team that you treat well and you will go from strength to strength. Do you properties up t9 a good quality focusing on issues like running costs and environmental impact and you'll build yourself a model difficult to beat today.

Thanks for the advice.

Not to blow my own trumpet too much but I've done well over the past 15 years starting from scratch. Over that time I have built up a decent group of tradesmen who do good quality work for me at a fair price. Obviously I've had some bad experiences and have cast a few people aside over the years but have a decent sparky, window fitter, plasterer etc. My maintenance guy has been putting bathrooms, kitchens, and doing other work for me for years now to a good standard. I feel a bit let down now to be honest that he's done work on my gas appliances and had assured me he's OK to do this as his gas safe mate always comes round and checks it over and then gives me the relevant documentation. Don't get me wrong I like a good price but not at the expense of safety. Think I need to find myself a new gas man.

 

[Rob876]

I'd say if you want to do something - do it. Take on whatever course you want to, and see where it leads, but make your own plans and keep them realistic.
I quit my long term delivery jobs last June and am going out alone doing general plumbing jobs already, if you study hard and have a plan you will get there, but I would just go for it.

 

[Jamesjamie]

I'd say if you want to do something - do it. Take on whatever course you want to, and see where it leads, but make your own plans and keep them realistic.
I quit my long term delivery jobs last June and am going out alone doing general plumbing jobs already, if you study hard and have a plan you will get there, but I would just go for it.

Thanks for the advice.

My regular gas man who I've used for years went a similar route to I am thinking. He did an intensive course then went with his dad's mate who was gas safe and got some experience with him before setting up on his own. He doesn't give the intensive training a good review in terms of gaining experience to be able to practically do the job, but he did say it gave him the basics so he was safe working with gas. He then gained the experience he needed of working on different systems whilst on the job with his dad's mate. He said he just did 6 months and then went on his own. He mainly just does services and landlord certs but I know he ticks over nicely and is very busy.

 

[Rob876]

Thanks for the advice.

My regular gas man who I've used for years went a similar route to I am thinking. He did an intensive course then went with his dad's mate who was gas safe and got some experience with him before setting up on his own. He doesn't give the intensive training a good review in terms of gaining experience to be able to practically do the job, but he did say it gave him the basics so he was safe working with gas. He then gained the experience he needed of working on different systems whilst on the job with his dad's mate. He said he just did 6 months and then went on his own. He mainly just does services and landlord certs but I know he ticks over nicely and is very busy.

If doing an intensive course make sure you start doing daily homework now, read lots of books (yes it does help a lot) and gain all the knowledge you can before you even get to the training stage, how else is one expected to do these daft courses and gain from them? It's all up to you.

 

[Jamesjamie]

If doing an intensive course make sure you start doing daily homework now, read lots of books (yes it does help a lot) and gain all the knowledge you can before you even get to the training stage, how else is one expected to do these daft courses and gain from them? It's all up to you.

I think I'd do well because I've got a general interest in learning about anything thats to do with property maintenance. I've self taught myself to do things like tiling after watching hours of YouTube videos at night whilst the Mrs is watching corrie as I've had a genuine interest in learning something and then putting it into practice the next day when working on whatever property I'm renovating. It's soul destroying doing something that you hate. Especially when you genuinely feel you could be a success at something else, only if you applied yourself.

It's time for me to pick a trade and take the time to get good at it. I've got bigger plans longer term but I want my bread and butter to be a trade.

 

[CHRISX]

Appreciate this info Chris. This is quite enlightening to me. I had always been of the impression that if the work was done to regs and someone was willing to check it over and certify it as such then it was considered OK.

Probably more concerning is that I have mentioned this before to various training providers and no one has pointed out this not being OK.

Time the reconsider my position I think. Thanks for the info guys.

Hello again Jamesjamie,

I could not reply to your message quoted above immediately because I was having a late Dinner.

I am not trying to labour my previous points - but regarding your comment here:

QUOTE:

I had always been of the impression that if the work was done to regs and someone was willing to check it over and certify it as such then it was considered OK.

END OF QUOTE

It is exactly because the Gas works would NOT have been carried out `to the regs` that makes it illegal for a registered Gas Safe Engineer / Installer to `Sign it off`.

The MAIN Regulation is that ALL Gas works must be carried out and `Signed Off` by a Gas safe registered Gas Engineer / Installer.

Chris

 

[Riley]

I fear we are wasting our breath here the OP seems to think it’s an easy trade to get into so good luck to him

 

[Zippymark]

I'm going to try and be a bit more positive, if you went by the advice of most here no one would ever come in to this trade. It sounds like you're in a fairly good position in that you're not so reliant on the income and have people you can learn from. It's almost certainly going to take you longer to get to the point you want to, it just takes time. From me actually starting to train to being a self employed gas engineer took around 5/6 years in total, but got there in the end. What i'd say is only take on jobs you're comfortable with at first, say no to stuff that you feel is too much. I did a 20 week gas course (after level 2+3 college), plus going out with engineers to build the portfolio and after that you're still not quite ready until you've got a bit more experience, so i'd say maybe offer to help the guys you know at a low rate. Also once you're qualified go on all the boiler manufacturer's free courses. Be wary of how the course phrase the placement with an engineer, it sounds like you're just mirroring them to learn so should be ok, but i knew a course that guaranteed a job at the end but it was just an interview, which no one ever got the job for.

As others have said signing off other people's work isn't legal so don't base your plan around that. One other thing i'd say is a gas course will teach you nothing other than gas, so you're going to need to learn the overall workings of a heating system, even how a boiler really works from elsewhere. Unless you work for a big firm you can't really just work on gas, people will just tell you their heating doesn't work, they won't know if it's the boiler or something else causing it.

 

[Riley]

What you say is fair point but still not realistic to many people who think they are going to learn an apprenticeships worth of knowledge in 20 weeks. No one is debating it cant happen but there are so many people trying to run before they can walk and talk as if plumbing is a simple trade that anyone can get into, when truth be told it’s just not. The problem with these courses is they dumb down the trade further and as such you get bad jobs for poor money, the customer knows no different so the cycle continues

 

[Jamesjamie]

I'm going to try and be a bit more positive, if you went by the advice of most here no one would ever come in to this trade. It sounds like you're in a fairly good position in that you're not so reliant on the income and have people you can learn from. It's almost certainly going to take you longer to get to the point you want to, it just takes time. From me actually starting to train to being a self employed gas engineer took around 5/6 years in total, but got there in the end. What i'd say is only take on jobs you're comfortable with at first, say no to stuff that you feel is too much. I did a 20 week gas course (after level 2+3 college), plus going out with engineers to build the portfolio and after that you're still not quite ready until you've got a bit more experience, so i'd say maybe offer to help the guys you know at a low rate. Also once you're qualified go on all the boiler manufacturer's free courses. Be wary of how the course phrase the placement with an engineer, it sounds like you're just mirroring them to learn so should be ok, but i knew a course that guaranteed a job at the end but it was just an interview, which no one ever got the job for.

As others have said signing off other people's work isn't legal so don't base your plan around that. One other thing i'd say is a gas course will teach you nothing other than gas, so you're going to need to learn the overall workings of a heating system, even how a boiler really works from elsewhere. Unless you work for a big firm you can't really just work on gas, people will just tell you their heating doesn't work, they won't know if it's the boiler or something else causing it.

Thanks for the feedback.

At what stage did you feel confident enough to carry out services and give landlord certificates?

 

[Riley]

That’s the point. It’s one thing doing a landlords gas certificate it’s quite another doing it properly as required by gas safe. To many it’s slam in the fga turn on the hob and be out the door before any questions are asked.

 

[Welder]

That’s the point. It’s one thing doing a landlords gas certificate it’s quite another doing it properly as required by gas safe. To many it’s slam in the fga turn on the hob and be out the door before any questions are asked.

There are none so blind as those who do not want to hear Riley...

 

[Jamesjamie]

There are none so blind as those who do not want to hear Riley...

I'm listening....... What's your advice?

 

[Jamesjamie]

That’s the point. It’s one thing doing a landlords gas certificate it’s quite another doing it properly as required by gas safe. To many it’s slam in the fga turn on the hob and be out the door before any questions are asked.

And you think that'd what they would teach me to do on a fast track course?

 

[Welder]

I'm listening... What's your advice?

My advice was given many posts ago James.

 

[Riley]

I'm listening... What's your advice?

I think the advice we’ve all been trying to get across is that it’s not an easy job to do or get into. There is so much to learn and spend out. Nothing is ever simple and everyday is a school day. If you’re still keen then do it but getting gas safe properly and I mean with experience requires you to work with someone, not necessarily legally but come on, even when qualified common sense says you will be green for a good few years before you’re confident tonbe solo. It is not something you can just read the instructions and get on. You need real world experience.

 

[Riley]

You will learn how to pass an exam you won’t get what I’d call real experience

 

[Zippymark]

Thanks for the feedback.

At what stage did you feel confident enough to carry out services and give landlord certificates?

So to give you a full history I did Level 2 plumbing at a college (2 years), level 3 (another 2 years), whilst working in a plumbing and heating merchants for all but the first year of that. Then after maybe another year did the gas, then once qualified started doing little jobs (services, fitting taps, repairing toilets etc), mainly for friends and some i got via the shop. It was really after i'd done everything a few times that i thought i'd go for it and go out on my own. Landlord's certificates are fairly easy once you've qualified, it's the same sort of thing they drum into you over and over again whilst training, just take your time. The only thing i'd say is a lettings agency is going to want someone to cover everything, not just the easy jobs.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Thanks for the feedback.

At what stage did you feel confident enough to carry out services and give landlord certificates?

Straight away. Servicing and landlords should be your bread and butter.

 

[Jamesjamie]

I think the advice we’ve all been trying to get across is that it’s not an easy job to do or get into. There is so much to learn and spend out. Nothing is ever simple and everyday is a school day. If you’re still keen then do it but getting gas safe properly and I mean with experience requires you to work with someone, not necessarily legally but come on, even when qualified common sense says you will be green for a good few years before you’re confident tonbe solo. It is not something you can just read the instructions and get on. You need real world experience.

Fair points. To be honest I'm taking time to mull things over as you guys have made me take stock. So from that point of view to those who were trying to give me a bit of a reality check you've achieved your goal and possibly helped me out! However I've not quite gave up, am rather looking into steps where I can ensure I've got a solid plans once I'm got through the initial fast track training.

 

[Riley]

You will learn how to pass an exam

Straight away. Servicing and landlords should be your bread and butter.

agreed but it’s amazing how many can’t

 

[Harvest Fields]

No one is debating it cant happen

It sounds to me like they are and it has always been the same on here. The OP just needs to realise that the approved and respected method on here and anywhere else will always be from an apprentice. However you only get out what you put in. If you are expecting to earn £50000.00 a year in your first 5 that will just not happen. It takes time, effort and a lot of sacrifice.

 

[Harvest Fields]

agreed but it’s amazing how many can’t

Doesn’t mean the Op will not be able to.

 

[Riley]

Doesn’t mean the Op will not be able to.

Fair point

 

[Jamesjamie]

It sounds to me like they are and it has always been the same on here. The OP just needs to realise that the approved and respected method on here and anywhere else will always be from an apprentice. However you only get out what you put in. If you are expecting to earn £50000.00 a year in your first 5 that will just not happen. It takes time, effort and a lot of sacrifice.

I could get by on earning between a grand and 1500 a month these days.

 

[Harvest Fields]

I could get by on earning a grand and 1500 a month these days.

Completely achievable mate. Just do not pretend to be something you are not. Be honest and work hard. Most experience comes with time even from an apprenticeship.

 

[Riley]

It sounds to me like they are and it has always been the same on here. The OP just needs to realise that the approved and respected method on here and anywhere else will always be from an apprentice. However you only get out what you put in. If you are expecting to earn £50000.00 a year in your first 5 that will just not happen. It takes time, effort and a lot of sacrifice.

I just don’t want to see people waste their hard earned money on promises that can’t always be delivered.

 

[Harvest Fields]

I just don’t want to see people waste their hard earned money on promises that can’t always be delivered.

It has to be there choice. All we can do is advise. (The good and the bad) Yes it is hard. Yes they should be an apprentice first. (Some of us didn’t have that choice) but everything in this world is achievable. Dependant on the amount of time and effort put into it.

 

[Jamesjamie]

Completely achievable mate. Just do not pretend to be something you are not. Be honest and work hard. Most experience comes with time even from an apprenticeship.

The position I'm in is my passion is in domestic property. I find all aspects of of a house interesting! Am 90% through my latest project which I am also living in. Me and my handy man put a bathroom in the other week. I can do some stuff which is less skilled and have even on an old rental I used to have put in a bath before and tiled it and it worked out OK. But recently on this project I ripped out the old suite, took off the tiles and boarded the walls with plaster board and the floor with ply. My plasterer re skimmed the ceiling for me. Then my tiler came and did the walls, handy man fitted the suite and I finished off the painting . I love it. Find it great fun and very satisfying.

Yet I work in a completely different industry. It's chalk and cheese. I want to learn. A trade which can be my bread and butter to financially keep me ticking over and what I can also use on future projects. I think once I'm in the trade I will pick up loads of other transferable skills too. I just need to be doing something that interests me.

 

[Harvest Fields]

From handyman level to where you want to be achieving mate is a massive gap.

 

[Jamesjamie]

From handyman level to where you want to be achieving mate is a massive gap.

True. But I'm not gonna achieve anything continuing to put my efforts into something I've got no desire to do any more.

 

[Riley]

It’s good to have a positive attitude. I would say you’d be vastly better off taking a plumbing course in the first instance. Learn to solder learn to calculate pipe sizes, understand the science behind it then contemplate going further. Your intention to jump in with both feet and play at Gas man (no offence intended) seems more like a nice to have and a whim rather than recognising that what you are proposing is some people’s livelihood and that is the level of commitment and work involved to achieve the necessary skills. As I have said about 4 times now. There is nothing saying you cannot learn the skills but seriously look at getting PROPERLY trained. I worked with a guy who did a short course and they “taught him to solder” all they taught him was how to put two ends of 15mm pipe into a 15mm elbow, burn it to hell, dab it with solder then chuck it in a bucket of water to cool. Nothing in situ, no z dimensions, no measuring, no different materials steel etc but as far as they were concerned big tick next to “knows how to solder”

 

[rpm]

Has anybody got anything NEW to add to this thread?

 

[Riley]

Has anybody got anything NEW to add to this thread?

Doubtful some say it’s doable some say it’s not others are pragmatic and try and advise. There’s not really a right answer sadly

 

[rpm]

Edit

 

[rpm]

Has anybody got anything NEW to add to this thread?

Doubtful some say it’s doable some say it’s not others are pragmatic and try and advise. There’s not really a right answer sadly

I rest my point your honour, nothing further to discuss.
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