USA Radiator emitting strong odor when heat goes up

[John93]

Greetings gentlemen,

I have a significant update. A plumber came out today and replaced my old cast iron baseboard rad with a newer slant/finn 30 model. It is much smaller than the old rad, and I have some concerns as to whether it will be strong enough to heat that room sufficiently.

I called the plumber and asked why he didn't install a model that was larger? The slant/finn 80? He said there would not be any increase in btu's as the pipe is only 1/4". I am not sure if he is being honest or just tried to install the cheapest model to pocket more cash. Claims there would not be any increase in BTU's given the pipe size.

This is a link to the slant/finn 30 manufacturer. They have the specs there. I measured the inside of this new rad, and it is a pipe with fins running along the entire length. I measured 5.5 feet from fin to fin.

Fine/Line 30 Baseboard

Do you gentlemen know if this type of rad would be strong enough to heat a room that is 10 feet wide by 11 feet long. 8 foot high ceiling. Bedroom with a double frame window, size 57"x57". Only one exterior wall.

I used a the slant/finn calculator they have on one site, and it said I require 8 feet. This guy only put in 5.5 feet of actual fins, which would emit heat.

I will contact him tomorrow. But he is not entirely keen on my questions, and I can't shake the feeling that this guy may have installed the cheapest rad, and did not get the sizing right for the proper BTU's.

Would really appreciate some feedback at this point. So much work has gone into arranging this with my building. I had plumbers come out. And now this guy, who claims has done many high rises here in Toronto. I am very suspicious as this new rad is much small and I can't see it being as strong as the cast iron base board panel that came out. I understand that he does many rad replacements. I could see how efficiently he worked. Highly skilled. So it stands to reason that he would put the right size in, if only to avoid call backs or complaints of insufficient heat. I do have that in mind. And yet I wonder how a smaller rad, can produce the same heat that my old rad produced.

I really hope this guy this did not screw me over. JTS had expressed some concerns about what may be behind that panel. Panel came off, nothing was in there. The wood backing was in very good shape. No rot of any kind. So that part is fine. He mounted this new rad quite nicely and the piping and fitting work was excellent. I just really have serious concerns about the output of this slant/finn 30 model , and whether it will heat a room 10x11. 8 feet high.

Thank you gentlemen,

 

[gmartine]

Seems low for that size of room but depends what else is on the circuit and the heat loss calculations if any were done but I'd have thought 1/4 inch could carry 900btu or 260w which is the output of the 8ft, your 5.5 ft rad is obviously rated at a lot less (approx 175W).

 

[John93]

Thanks for replying gmartine. I agree that based on all the online calculators and also some calls I made to a few plumbers. The consensus is that 5'5" is not enough.

When I contacted the plumber who did the installation, to ask how he calculated the rad size, he blew up on me and started to yell and insult me.

I did not want to escalate the matter as I did not have a clear picture of what needs to happen. Did not want to burn any bridges preemptively.

If I report this to the building, they may or may not side with me. And they may or may not go after him legally. The management here are one of the reasons I wish to leave in the near future. They are part of the problem and have repeatedly screwed me over on this rad issue, until I got a lawyer involved.

I would go after him, but the building paid for the rad replacement. And I am not sure what the best course of action is. As they may decide to see how much heat it actually outputs. Before taking any sort of action.

Any advice from anyone who has been through something similar? Should I press the matter? Or wait until winter to see if the room will be at a reasonable temperature?

Would the room be unbearable? The thing should put out some level of heat even at 5'5". I wonder if opening up the valves to fully open, could help? Other factors here. Double pane windows. Good insulation. One outside facing wall. Any chance this could be passable?

When the plumber blew up and started to insult me. He threatened that he would just come by and remove everything and not take any money. But the pipes are so old and brittle, the last thing I want is for this guy to come back in an angry state, to either change the rad to a stronger model or tamper with the valves. Which he did a very good job in handling. It's just a bad situation. I trusted that this guy would have enough sense to replace the rad with an equivalent model. He swindled me and now to fix his error, I literally have to go to war and involve all kinds of people in this building. Not sure what the wisest approach may be.

 

[gmartine]

You're possibly over-reacting as the length of this thread indicates, you didn't pay so you really haven't been swindled. Building management should have ensured the correct size radiator was installed and if it isn't you need to tell them so contact your lawyer if you can't deal with them face to face. If they fail to act you may need an official report saying the radiator is undersized (if it is) and take it further. If the original installer needs to be called back then do so, his mood and the condition of the pipework should not be your concern if he's made a mistake or knowingly undersized the radiator.

 

[John93]

Thanks again gmartine. I went ahead and advised the building what the plumber has done. I relayed all the pertinent points. Hopefully they will investigate and take corrective measures to have this rad replaced.

If they decide to not replace it, and instead see how much heat will actually be generated. Do you have some rough idea of what temperatures I can expect? The room is well insulated. Double pane windows. Rooms above and below are heated. There is carpet in that bedroom.

Is there any chance that a 5'5" rad can heat 110 square feet? I don't need the room to be perfect. Just some reasonable temperature would suffice.

 

[MARTIN LISTER]

Hydrogen sulphide gas venting from inside the radiator?

 

[John93]

Martin,

I don't think the old rad was venting sulphide gas. If you look at the pics in the thread. Who ever painted the rad before I bought this place, used multiple layers. And it appears like the top layers have formed a kind of seal, where the layer closest to the rad is off gassing, but the now hardened multiple layers surrounding it, are sealing it in and not really letting it burn off.

To Gmartin. I got screwed because this is a co-op property. Meaning I am the owner of this unit. The building is supposed to replace the rad. But now that this guy has used insufficient length, my main concern is not enough heat and down the road, difficulty selling this unit. Yes they paid for it. But it does not appear like they are going to go after this plumber to get him to put in the correct rad.

My question went out to any plumbers who may be able to predict if 5'5" will sufficiently heat a room that is well insulated. Heated rooms above and below. Double pane windows. Carpet. I think the building wants to see how much heat will actually be produced. I was not over reacting. I have had to get a lawyer involved just to get the building to replace the rad. They were supposed to replace it way back in 2014. Dropped it without any warning. It is only when I acted on the advice that JTS gave me, getting a lawyer involved, that the building finally took action. But the plumber screwed up. And now it is uncertain whether 5'5" will produce enough heat to comfortably use that space.

Not only did the plumber knowingly use the wrong rad to pocket more money for himself. But the building is not exactly on my side, and will not likely go after this guy. Which means I will have to go after them.

I don't know if they have co-ops in the UK. But moving into this kind of arrangement was a huge mistake. I regret it, and am trying to get the rad sorted so as to sell it and move out. But the problems persist. As if the plumber is not enough of a pain, the building does not want to do what is called for which is to get this guy to replace the rad with the correct model.

So yes, while I did not pay for it. The potentially insufficient rad, may affect my ability to sell this unit, and that is definitely screwing me over. To which there is no over reaction. Only an attempt to equalize and set right what has been misdone.

To anyone not familiar with co-ops. There is a board of directors. They are supposed to be chosen by the rest of the shareholders. But in some cases, as in this building, the majority of the owners do not want the burden of being on the board. And so the people who are left over and put to that task, are not only under qualified, but ill tempered and just generally the bottom of the barrel. These kinds of people can sometimes worm their way into positions of authority or decision making. And that is what has happened here, and it is the #1 reason I want out. The rad is the only thing that requires attention, as I do not want to do to the new owners what the previous owner did to me, which was sell me a unit with a rad that was off gassing.

Of course the obvious answer is to wait and see what the rad outputs. But my question was geared towards anyone who may have experience with this sort of thing and perhaps can relay some idea as to what I can expect.