Discuss Radiator Balancing Help in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

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hotdogharry

HI All
Just had a new boiler fitted and have since noticed one radiator out of five is not getting as hot as others. I think it is last on a run as pipework comes from first floor (bedroom) to ground floor (living room).
I read up on balancing radiators only to find only the radiator thats not heating up properly is the only rad with a lockshield valve. The others upstairs have to manual valves on both ends (ie no lockshield)
My question is will I still be able to balance system using the manual valves and should I adjust both ends or leave one open and adjust the other or will this not work
Thanks in advance
Cliff
 
HI All
Just had a new boiler fitted and have since noticed one radiator out of five is not getting as hot as others. I think it is last on a run as pipework comes from first floor (bedroom) to ground floor (living room).
I read up on balancing radiators only to find only the radiator thats not heating up properly is the only rad with a lockshield valve. The others upstairs have to manual valves on both ends (ie no lockshield)
My question is will I still be able to balance system using the manual valves and should I adjust both ends or leave one open and adjust the other or will this not work
Thanks in advance
Cliff
It’s dead easy , locksheild and wheelhead valves are the same under the cover. A locksheild is just a wheelhead with a different head. I would carefully open fully one side of each rad. Then close all the valves on all the rads on the other end. Do all left hand eg.
Then open all on the selected side by one full turn.
Switch boiler on. See which heat up. The ones that get hottest leave alone , the ones that do not heat up open another full turn and so on thereby you are rationing the heat out equally. It’s time consuming , and bleed all rads before you start . Rob Foster aka cenralheatking
 
It’s dead easy , locksheild and wheelhead valves are the same under the cover. A locksheild is just a wheelhead with a different head. I would carefully open fully one side of each rad. Then close all the valves on all the rads on the other end. Do all left hand eg.
Then open all on the selected side by one full turn.
Switch boiler on. See which heat up. The ones that get hottest leave alone , the ones that do not heat up open another full turn and so on thereby you are rationing the heat out equally. It’s time consuming , and bleed all rads before you start . Rob Foster aka cenralheatking
When you say "locksheild and wheelhead valves are the same under the cover" I assume by the cover you mean the plastic cap?
Sorry if I was not clear about my valves but mine have the pin on top (not a spindle) on both ends of rads (except the rad thats not heating properly which does have a spindle one end)
Will your instructions for balancing still work with my pin valves?
thanks
cliff
 
If you have 2 manual valves, declare one to the balancing valve (lockshield) and the other to be the day to day control. Open the control and balance with the other. Never touch it again :)

I found (as a DIYer) a 2 input thermocouple temperature meter with a pair of pipe clip style sensors to speed the process up a lot.
 
I’m intrigued with”pins” as you describe them could we see some pics
 
I’m assuming that’s not on the other end too so the opposite end to that should be your lock shield
 
how do these work?
If i screw the black piece with the numbers on into the valve does this in effect reduce the flow/temperature?
Now I know there is supposed to be lockshield valve but as old has the valves shown in pic at both ends just trying to get rad thats not heating up as much to work a bit warmer
 
The point being you don’t have a thermostatic radiator valve on each end of the radiator do you
 
Were all the rads well working before and was the system cleaned as part of the new boiler installation?
 
The point being you don’t have a thermostatic radiator valve on each end of the radiator do you
The point being yes they do have them on each end whether or not they are supposed to be, the point is they do
 
Were all the rads well working before and was the system cleaned as part of the new boiler installation?
I believe the one radiator has never got as hot as rest and I asked fitter if it was flushed and he said yes BUT as to whether he did or not I could not tell you. What would a system clean involve as I was here most of the time he was and tried to watch all he did
 
It could be a circulation problem but if the rad with two TRV's is the one that doesn't get up to temp I'd get someone in to investigate that first. Extremely odd.
 
The point being yes they do have them on each end whether or not they are supposed to be, the point is they do
No need for sarcasm merely asking. Clearly wrong I suspect neither trv is bi directional. Take a pic further back to get both ends in
 
It could be a circulation problem but if the rad with two TRV's is the one that doesn't get up to temp I'd get someone in to investigate that first. Extremely odd.
Funny enough the rad thats not heating properly is the only one with a lockshield valve the other four all have the two of the TRV'S
 
Sorry not a clue what that is or how I would use it

Measure the temperature for the flow and return at once, adjust balancing valve until you get a consistent temperature drop across the rad (I go for about 10-12C drop). Measuring the temperatures is the classic way to balance the flows, but a dual thermometer with pipe clips makes it pretty fast. You can use other techniques.

If you want to balance your system, this is a good guide for a DIYer:

Balancing central heating radiators - DIYWiki
 
Without any images we are scuppared and with the OP's abruptness at our crystal ball not working we may never know...:rolleyes:

Sorry Tim but that 'thing' you posted the link to re balancing is a pile of junk. About as professional as my ex wife was faithful :(

I apologise for being old, but rads are designed to drop 10 degrees across them. That can be measured pretty darned accurately with your hands. If you can 'feel' the difference in flow & return its about right. Perhaps once you get old you become less sensitive ;)

The rule of thumb for balancing (starting point if more work reqd) is one full turn open on the lockshield for 'big' rads & one half turn open on the small rads.

I take it everyone is aware that once the rads are done then you're looking for 11 deg drop across the boiler so you use the pump speed to achieve that ...:)
 
Sorry Tim but that 'thing' you posted the link to re balancing is a pile of junk.

Can you explain why that link is wrong?

The explanation omits the need to remove TRVs/fully open each control valve, but I can't see what else is wrong. Trying to get the system losing the same amount of temperature across each emitter, 10 or 11°C on a standard boiler, 20°C or more on a condensing boiler (provided that this does not result in radiators giving out insufficient heat to the rooms) seems to be about right.

What am I missing?
 
thanks to all repliers but all I wanted to know was whether I could 'balance' rads using the TRV'S and should I leave one end open and adjust the other or adjust both.
Since asking I have tried turning rads off and the colder rad did get hot so guess I just need to play around adjusting them til i get a sort of balance
 
thanks to all repliers but all I wanted to know was whether I could 'balance' rads using the TRV'S and should I leave one end open and adjust the other or adjust both.
Since asking I have tried turning rads off and the colder rad did get hot so guess I just need to play around adjusting them til i get a sort of balance

The fact is, you are going to have the TRVs fighting one another. You will never know which is controlling and worse, you'll not be able to physically balance them becasue both ends may be fully open and 'rob' other rads or both ends might be fully closed. The reality is that you will never ever be able to know what's actually happening and system performance will be - well - sh1te!

To be honest, it is truly a dogs dinner. In your position I would get one end of all rads swapped for a proper lockshield so it can be balanced and then you can get on with life... Sorry.
 
both ends may be fully open and 'rob' other rads or both ends might be fully closed
When one valve is closed rad goes cold so just going to try slowly open it until rad gets hot and see if 'cold rad' gets hot enough
Would like to replace all rads pipework but its not an option at moment Any idea roughly how much it would be to replace valves on say 5 rads?
 
When one valve is closed rad goes cold so just going to try slowly open it until rad gets hot and see if 'cold rad' gets hot enough
Would like to replace all rads pipework but its not an option at moment Any idea roughly how much it would be to replace valves on say 5 rads?

Depends where you live. Around here, I'd have done that for £200-250.
 
Not sure what a pic will show you its the same as pic already posted but on both ends of rad
That is because a picture showing the valve from the side should show whether the valves will allow flow in both directions or only one (a cast in arrow- single or double ended).
Trying to balance a radiator with a TRV at both ends is next to impossible, hence the suggestion that you replace one end of each road with a stopvalve.
In case you didn’t know, TRVs work automatically and as you adjust one manually, it is possible that all the others will adjust themselves because of the different heat now presenting itself at their sensors. You may well end up by chasing your tail for weeks.
My theory is that the system was flushed when the new boiler was fitted ( ask the plumber) and this has altered the thermodynamics of the system.

Q for you pros out there...
Do you, as a matter of course, check radiator flow temps after a major change like a boiler, or is that a separate job?
 
Not sure what a pic will show you its the same as pic already posted but on both ends of rad
That is because a picture showing the valve from the side should show whether the valves will operate in both directions or only one (a cast in arrow- single or double ended).
Trying to balance a radiator with a TRV at both ends is next to impossible, hence the suggestion that you replace one end of each road with a stopvalve.
In case you didn’t know, TRVs work automatically and as you adjust one manually, it is possible that all the others will adjust themselves because of the different heat now presenting itself at their sensors. You may well end up by chasing your tail for weeks.
My theory is that the system was flushed when the new boiler was fitted ( ask the plumber) and this has altered the thermodynamics of the system.

Q for you pros out there...
Do you, as a matter of course, check radiator flow temps after a major change like a boiler, or is that a separate job?
 
My plumbers didn't, but I didn't ask them to and I suspect they knew I would do it (may have told them so). I'm happy to pay few-hundred/day to deal with horridly difficult and tight copper pipe routing (and of course GasSafe competency at the boiler end) and also for said folks to take responsibility for any leaks and fix them.

But radiator balancing can take a day to get a completely unbalanced system good (because things take time to heat up and cool down - it's a slow process) - it's a perfect job that *anyone* with a means to measure temperature, a couple of household tools and the ability to follow a simple set of instructions.

You can rough it much quicker - eg I know that about 3/4 turn open on my particular make of lockshield valve gets it "not far off" and good enough to work. I just like to go the whole hog and try to get 10-12C drop on every rad so the boiler return is always <55C for efficient condensing mode to work.

Also you have the problem that it's sometimes necessary to leave valves full open for a bit to blow any air through the pipes where it can be trapped and bled off in the radiator. I suppose in an ideal world, your plumber might have an apprentice who could run around after each job tidying these things up - but most plumbers don't have a lad IME...
 

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