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Lancashire Lass

Hi all

We're having a problem with our combi boiler leaking water and the Gas Safe engineers we've got a contract with to service and repair the boiler can't seem to get to the bottom of the problem.

The boiler only started to leak water after we'd called out the engineers about 5 weeks ago to attend to a fault on our boiler. We have an Alpha C23 combi boiler (installed 2004) and we were having intermittent problems with the 'A' indicator neon illuminated continuously and the 'B' indicator neon flashing . We checked our user manual and it said that we might have a problem with the DHW flow switch or the pump. The engineers attended the fault and put in a brand new pump and DHW flow switch.

That evening we noticed that there was a few drops of water on the floor beneath the boiler. We didn't think too much of this initially but over the next few days we noticed more drops of water in the same place and so we decided to call the engineers back. The engineers reattended, said that one of the washers needed to be replaced which was the cause of the leak, replaced it and went on his way.

Over the course of the next few days, we noticed yet more drops of water on the floor beneath the boiler, and so we asked the engineers to reattend. The engineer who attended said that he couldn't find the source of the leak and that he thought we may have water coming in through our flue on the roof. We found this explanation a little hard to swallow seeing as the leak had only developed since the work on the boiler several weeks before. We decided to ring the owner of the company directly and make a complaint. The owner was very polite and helpful and offered to come round himself to take a look at the problem. He came round, popped the cover off the boiler and because he couldn't immediately see any signs of anything weeping water in the boiler, told us that he felt it was the flue letting in water. We were both quite sceptical about this and told him that we were but decided to keep an eye on things and see how it went.

About a week after the owner came out, we woke up one morning to find a fairly large pool of water on the floor beneath the boiler. We popped the cover off the boiler straight away to see if we could see where the leak was coming from. My husband spotted the leak straight away. It seemed to be coming from the air vent near the pump. We contacted the owner of the company straight away and he came out quite quickly, saw the leak for himself, and proceeded to replace the air vent.

We thought that was that and that was the last we'd see of the leak to find yet more drops of water beneath the boiler the following morning. We again contacted the owner of the company who again came out to take a look and who again told us that he couldn't see any water weeping anywhere in the boiler. By this point, we were both quite exasperated, and said that we found it odd that this problem had only reared its head since the work they'd done on the boiler. He told us that he can't diagnose what he cannot see but that we should keep an eye on it and if the leak got any worse, call him back.

We've come home this afternoon to yet another pool of water beneath the boiler. We've popped the cover off the boiler and it looks like it's leaking from the air vent again.

We're going to call the owner of the company to get him back to take at this pronto but we're both extremely fed up with all this and growing increasingly perplexed and concerned at (a) why the leak has only started since they did the initial pump/DHW flow switch replacement, (b) why there's still water leaking from the air vent despite them replacing it just a week ago and (c) their inability to get to the bottom of the problem and sort it out once and for all.

Has anyone here got any idea whatsoever might be causing this and what needs to be done to sort this out?

We'd be grateful for your comments.

Thanks
 
You have options. You can have the boiler guys keep reattending until the problem is resolved. To be fair they sound very good to keep coming back. You could have another firm take a look at it. You could have a new boiler fitted. I have a labrador with a poorly ear. 3 vets and 600 quid later it is still no better. Some problems are easier to diagnose than others I guess. Good luck.
 
Yeah, we know we have options, and we both know that we could spend a lot of money on getting to the bottom of what's causing this without any definite answers. I don't think either of us feel that they've been hesitant about coming back ... far from it ... there are plenty of companies out there that would have avoided coming back at all costs.

We haven't ruled out asking another Gas Safe engineer to come out and take a look at the boiler. For the time being, though, we're going to persist with the company we've got the contract with until such time as we feel that we're just going round in circles and getting nowhere.

We're not attempting to be 'know it alls' because, frankly, when it comes down to this we know very little. All that we're trying to achieve through this post is perhaps some clues as to what might be causing the problem from people who have far more experience than us with this.
 
when you get the automatic air vent replaced on the pump, after clearing all the air from the pump/system the air vent should be closed to pervent it from leaking. Is the vent being closed off after bleeding the system???

This plumbing firm seems like a decent firm sometimes in our trade you come up against things like this but at least the firm is willing to work with you.

Good luck and i'm sure your plumber wants to get to the bottom of this just as much as you ;)
 
I defenitely dont agree with diesel on shutting off the auto air valve, manufacturers tell you to open it on commissioning they dont say close it on completion as it still has a job to do and thats releasing any air that forms due to corrosion etc as the system settles down.
 
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with respect old plumber it is common practice to close automatic air vents as they knowing for leaking, once you have flush your heating system, treated it against corrosion and cleared all the air from the system you will get very little air building up in the system. Should any air build up over the year on your annual your service engineer can bleed the auto manual and then reseal.
 
with respect old plumber it is common practice to close automatic air vents as they knowing for leaking, once you have flush your heating system, treated it against corrosion and cleared all the air from the system you will get very little air building up in the system. Should any air build up over the year on your annual your service engineer can bleed the auto manual and then reseal.
agreed.....
 
Spotting a water leak on a boiler can be difficult, some leaks leak more when hot & some when cold.
These things can be very frustrating for both customer & engineers.
I'd get them back as they are trying really hard to sort this & the auto air vent can be changed under warranty, probably faulty, but maybe worth fitting a genuine manufactures part.
My view is that the vent cap should be left loose/open so it can expell air as required, if it was to be closed the manufactures could have saved money by fitting manual air bleeds.
 
could muck get into an auto air bleed valve and create a drip as a prv can?
 
why fit an auto vent and then close it? a manual vent would be sufficent if it only needed doing at service intervals most mi's state leaving auto vents open half a turn or similar the only time ive seen instructions to close an air vent is on a boiler with two fitted where one can be closed after filling
 
Thanks for all the advice everyone! This at least gives us a few ideas/suggestions to run past the company we've got the maintenance contract with.
 
if an automatic air vent is left open to expel air on a sealed system this can cause the system pressure to drop too low for the boiler to fire up.

I understand where some of yous are coming from about an automatic valve remaining open to expel air from the pump but if the system is vented correctly, flush and treated you will get very little air in the system so you should close the auto vent and then a sealed system becomes just that sealed;)
 
if an automatic air vent is left open to expel air on a sealed system this can cause the system pressure to drop too low for the boiler to fire up.

I understand where some of yous are coming from about an automatic valve remaining open to expel air from the pump but if the system is vented correctly, flush and treated you will get very little air in the system so you should close the auto vent and then a sealed system becomes just that sealed;)

So why dont the manufacturers just fit a manual valve?.
 
why not ring a manufacturer and ask ?
i always leave mine open, but havnt really thought about the above points before.
think i will still leave mine open, because that is what they were designed to do.
same as putting aav's anywhere else in a cct.
 
i would say they fit and automatic vent to make sure you get all the air out of the system while you are commissioning the appliance i but should be closed after commissioning to pervent pressure loss or leakage hence sealed system
 
I think the guys are doing their best and you should chill out things don't always go our way I feel for you though probably just feel for them more though.
They know that it's not good for business the way things have went and they will be more stressed out about this than you BELIEVE me.
 
good point mrlennie as plumber/heating engineers we do try our best at all times but we are human and sometimes things dont always go our way first and the best thing for you to do as a customer is remain patient and i'm sure this engineer will get it sorted
 
Trust me, we know that plumbers/heating engineers are only human and sometimes things aren't that easily resolved. I think that we are being patient and giving them an opportunity to get it sorted. My husband and I both know that they'll be as keen as we are to get this one resolved once and for all.
 
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