One of Your Colleagues Has Saved My Life!

[VVIC]

I'm pretty sure my life has been saved (literally) thanks to gas safety regulations. And I need some advice please.

I've just had a gas safety inspection. The engineer was undoubtedly the most professional engineer I've ever come across. He did far more than any of the previous engineers.

It was a shock when he told me there was a substantial leak in the gas. After inspecting the gentleman asked me to come look at the gas fire. As I squatted down he said "watch this." He reached into the wall cavity and pulled out the entire pipe which extended from the wall to the fire. He asked 'what do you see?' All I saw was lots of tape. That's what I told him. 'Exactly,' he said with a searching look of incredulity. 'Who did this installation?' he asked. I told him it was the same company who had come for the past four years.

The engineer said he had never seen anything like this before. The pipe running from the mains connecting to the fire had been connected with Sellotape! There was not even threading on the pipes as one would imagine there might be to screw or bolt the pipes together. The tape had become brittle and loose around the pipe, thus causing the gas to escape.

For the past three years I have been becoming increasingly ill. I have been to my GP so many times I can't even begin to count. I have been subjected to a litany of exams, tests, and medications. The nausea was constant with vomiting sometimes lasting for days. But when I went away it got better. We couldn't figure out what or why this was happening.

You have no idea how grateful I am to the engineer who came to my home. He was a mature gentleman, unlike the extremely young people who came before, who were always in a hurry and never once to my recollection did gas leak tests, or inspections of my cooker, etc. I suppose the simple moral to this is how valuable your profession is and how essential it is to take pride in following the regulations in checking each installation thoroughly.

Over the past four weeks my medication types have reduced from nine to three - (just a blood pressure, a cholesterol, and an antibiotic tablet for a throat infection, which the GP says may also be connected to the gas!)

Has anyone here ever heard of anything like this? I'm quite angry and I've spent the past couple of years finding myself in a stupor in the mornings, fighting the most outrageous headaches and nausea, and having lost the enjoyment out of life for the past two years. I'm not feeling sorry for myself - I'm just jolly glad it's over with!

It's amazing that the past three years worth of inspections were done without the engineers ever testing the gas and actually overlooking the Sellotape which was blatantly obvious once you're down on your knees in front of the fire. The level of apathy and complacency beggars belief!

apologies for my using the forum to get this off my chest but I thought you might find it of interest.

 

[gasmarc]

Well that is great news but the firm should have been reported RIDDOR ,which means reporting the incident so the firm dont end up doing the same to someone else

 

[REDSAW]

many thanks for your input.!.

spread the word to others that a good proper gas inspection once a year by a qualified professional is not just about another expense, its about detecting defects and protecting life.

and we will call it quits.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

glad to hear your news only a shame it took so long to find out. the previous company are nothing short of criminal to leave you with all these problems healthwise.

 

[sparra1100]

glad your ok,your very lucky to get away with your life ,they should be struck off,did ye get some carbon monoxide poisoning aswell because of the sickness dont no how anyone can not do a tightness test when workin on gas, its a basic must do test before you start and before you leave

 

[VVIC]

Thank you everyone for your kind input! Gasmart, I've been agonising over this very issue! I'm a priest and since this occurrence I've been torn over the possibility that there may be other people, especially elderly ones who are possibly being exposed to the same thing I was and to be honest with all of you, the greatest agony I'm suffering is my wondering whether anyone has already died and the coroner simply wrote the death off as natural causes.

Sparra - as you know carbon monoxide is from burnt gas so I gather the results would have been different and most certainly the result would have registered if the coroner received a body.

Interestingly, this company is actually quite reputable. Sadly, and I mean no malice whatsoever, but the previous 4 years the people who came were quite young and clearly a bit 'stressed' over the loads of work they had.

The gentleman who came this time was methodical, went straight to the gas meter and began his process. I commented on the fact that I had never seen previously any of the engineers doing what he was doing and asked whether there were new procedures. He said no, that the procedure was standard and should always be done the same way.

I think it was a matter of this gentleman not only being proud of what he did, but professional and determined to carry out essential work in the interest of my and others safety. The young lads were perhaps being pushed. I was told by the one from last year that they were paid by the job so perhaps they had a race to see how many inspections they could carry out.

I felt rather sorry for the engineer as he told me he had to make some phone calls. I told him he was welcome to use my phone but he declined saying he felt better speaking outside. I gather he was reporting what he found to his manager but I also believe he was protecting his company's reputation.

I have a twang of guilt because while he was out I grabbed my camera and took quite a few high-resolution photos of the pipe, the tape, and the absence of threading on the pipe. I never mentioned to him.

Clearly none of this was his fault. But I am concerned that his bosses, should I report this, will find a way to blame someone - perhaps him. He is totally blameless though.

My bishop has encouraged me to seek legal counsel. But I've sat on this since it happened. To be honest though, the longer I sit on it the angrier I become, especially when I think about the possibility of others being in a similar situation. In that case my mind gets carried away and I think of the company being forced to make a comprehensive inspection of virtually every installation they've either installed or checked over the past four years. And of course then some poor soul would indeed become the scapegoat!

I'm not sure what to do and I'm not certain whether I have any permanent injury. I don't have words to say how much better I feel. I honestly felt my life was coming to an end. It was quite saddening at times. I'd find myself in a stupor in the mornings, dizzy, nauseous and with a pounding headache. And my muscles felt like rubber. It was like this every single day. But when I went away, over a few days I'd feel better. I always thought it was because I had so much work to do that I couldn't think about my own problems. But the truth was that I was free of being poisoned.

Again, thank all of you very much indeed. If you have any experience with a situation such as this I'd love to hear. Or if you have any knowledge of how this exposure may affect me in the future I'd like to hear that as well.

But most of all, thank you all for being professional and proud of the work you do!

Fr B+

 

[leelister6]

This should definitely be reported to Gas safe! Make a complaint about gas work

The first thing a gas engineer should do before starting ANY gas related work is a tightness test to check for leaks. The gas fire should always be removed to check the catchment space and a visual check performed on the flue and pipework so I'm shocked that this wasn't discovered! Do you know if a flue flow test was ever performed (smoke bomb in the chimney)? I'm guessing not!! No matter how much pressure the "engineers" were under, there is NO excuse for not doing a tightness test - It literally takes 5 minutes. I have found a bit of info on Natural gas poisoning Gas Leak : Slow Natural Gas Leak can cause Poisoning! and I hope this will be of some help. One last thing - could you upload the pics you took as it would be interesting to see how bad the situation actually was!

 

[mfgs]

If it is just a gas fire service there is no need for a tightness test if it can be isolated at the appliance. It isn't a necesity for all gas work.

Glad this all got sorted, I would be interested in seeing the pictures if you wouldnt mind putting them up? Could you not smell gas in the property at all? I certainly think you should follow this up and make a complaint as leaving this as described is not on and should not have happened. The people who did it should not be working in the gas industry.

 

[leelister6]

If it is just a gas fire service there is no need for a tightness test if it can be isolated at the appliance. It isn't a necesity for all gas work.

Don't you think it's good practice though? For instance, you do a service on a gas fire and there is an undetected gas leak elsewhere on the premises. You go home and turn the news on the next day and see pictures of what's left of the house where you've just done a service. Fair enough, you've specified on the certificate that a tightness test was NOT carried out so you've probably covered your arse but I know I would blame myself if something like this happened, just for the sake of 5 minutes of my time! If a non permissible drop is discovered, the householder has the option to get it traced and repaired by you or have the problem passed onto the gas emergency service.

 

[mfgs]

I think there is an arguement for doing one and for not doing one, the point I was making is the guys before didnt HAVE to do one if it was just a service which you were saying they did. There have been many discussions on it before and best not to hijack this thread with it.

 

[leelister6]

Fair enough. It's just that this type of situation emphasises the need for some changes IMO. The O.P. is lucky he wasn't summoned to the bosses office earlier than anticipated!!

 

[sparra1100]

Sparra - as you know carbon monoxide is from burnt gas so I gather the results would have been different and most certainly the result would have registered if the coroner received a body.

Interestingly, this company is actually quite reputable. Sadly, and I mean no malice whatsoever, but the previous 4 years the people who came were quite young and clearly a bit 'stressed' over the loads of work they had.





I have a twang of guilt because while he was out I grabbed my camera and took quite a few high-resolution photos of the pipe, the tape, and the absence of threading on the pipe. I never mentioned to him.




I'm not sure what to do and I'm not certain whether I have any permanent injury. I don't have words to say how much better I feel. I honestly felt my life was coming to an end. It was quite saddening at times. I'd find myself in a stupor in the mornings, dizzy, nauseous and with a pounding headache. And my muscles felt like rubber. It was like this every single day. But when I went away, over a few days I'd feel better. I always thought it was because I had so much work to do that I couldn't think about my own problems. But the truth was that I was free of being poisoned.

Again, thank all of you very much indeed. If you have any experience with a situation such as this I'd love to hear. Or if you have any knowledge of how this exposure may affect me in the future I'd like to hear that as well.


Fr B+

the paragraph above is classic carbon monoxide poisoning signs hence why i asked you vic never looked at the affects of gas poisoning cos am working with it everyday i would have felt the affects of it by now

its best practice to do a tightness test regardless of wether your just doing a service, as how do you no what was the fault before you started you could fix the fire and there could be a leak somewere else which you not aloud to leave therefore you must do one before and as you leave i always do is it worth the risk for the sake of 4 minutes

 

[stani]

I think the fact this person is a Priest and has reported it to the Bishop would make me think this is in fact a landlords gas safety inspection. A Tightness test is therefore required.

 

[REDSAW]

I think the fact this person is a Priest and has reported it to the Bishop would make me think this is in fact a landlords gas safety inspection. A Tightness test is therefore required.

quite right in your thinking,
normally under the diocese all properties come with the job but owned by them as landlord or whatever term they use.

what i would like to know father, what if you did not do your job right and you never new what your mistakes cost to others?.

however, the recent gas guy should have riddor reported this fault anyway!.

 

[fuzzy]

good input, thanks

we get slated enough times, we need some positive to balance it out

 

[Blackcatgas]

Can Ch4 gas poison you? I know old town gas could.

 

[fuzzy]

is that methane? if so no

 

[Blackcatgas]

is that methane? if so no

Its Ch4 out of the meter isnt it? Ch somthing or other.

 

[secret squirrel]

I've read all these posts reasonably carefully and I'd like to play devils advocate, so, just bare with me for a moment.

Time constraints are a real issue and if you trust the people you work with, some would assume (well aware what assume really means) that every previous engineer should and would have done the job their job properly. The installer would have completed the installation to a correct level of competency and signed off the work correctly.

A landlord certificate is only confirmation that at the time the appliance was working correctly and within normal levels.

So, as devils advocate some if not all can be understood.

However, cellotape connecting the fire should send alarm bells ringing very loudly and action should be taken immediately, obviously, any short cuts engineers take having seen this should now be kicked out and the whole installation checked. I don't think theres any arguments there.

BUT:

A question for you is this: Gas safe and any other authorities get involved (and I think they should) who would be looked at, surely, it will only be the last person signing the work off? not the previous 3 engineers because they will say "It was ok when I checked it"..........

 

[leelister6]

A question for you is this: Gas safe and any other authorities get involved (and I think they should) who would be looked at, surely, it will only be the last person signing the work off? not the previous 3 engineers because they will say "It was ok when I checked it"..........

Surely, when the fire was removed, the sellotape would have been spotted, or the pipe would have come away with the fire! And if a tightness test was a mandatory part of a service the problem would more than likely been highlighted.

 

[dontknowitall]

I've read all these posts reasonably carefully and I'd like to play devils advocate, so, just bare with me for a moment. ...

Priest, bishop, devil's advocate ...

Would you Adam and Eve it?!!!

:winkiss:

 

[stani]

the problem with these jobs is that one small firm may do all the LGSI for a particular area, it becomes an easy money maker, they run in quick bomb through the air space at the bottom of the closure plate, gas rate, all done in 10 minutes, then on to the next. you only need to work 2-3 days a week. Then someone else comes along, removes the fire, sees nest material, removes 3-4 bin bags, looks at roof, there's a terminal on, go to next one of their jobs, ILFE, in fire box, siliconed in place, never ever been removed, could'nt be removed and fire box has to be damaged to get it out.these lazy people give competent engineers the bad name.

 

[mikegas]

Can Ch4 gas poison you? I know old town gas could.

If a natural gas leak has occurred and is severe, oxygen can be reduced, causing dizziness, fatigue, nausea, headache, and irregular breathing.

Exposure to low levels of natural gas is not harmful to your health

 

[fuzzy]

ch4 is methane, which is about 90%ish of natural gas

as far as im aware its non toxic unlike its previous towns gas. however if you were in a room of it you would be starved of oxygen

 

[REDSAW]

holy moses!.

if the fire was being starved of gas, due to it escaping up the chimney (hense no smell of ethylbutane (whatever)) , from the ever deteriating sellotape, then it may have been co poisoning?.
main question is, how often was the fire in use?.

the point of methane not being poisonous;
excuse me father, i read about a man who was in bed smelling his own farts under the bed sheets and it literally killed him!.

 

[wazzer]

The forum is for discussion on all aspects of the Gas Safety Register but is only viewable by those with the registration (moderators too, obviously) so you know what you're saying is between you, and your customers or those not registered will not see anything.

Unless you are a vicar

 

[Hybrid]

The forum is for discussion on all aspects of the Gas Safety Register but is only viewable by those with the registration (moderators too, obviously) so you know what you're saying is between you, and your customers or those not registered will not see anything.

Unless you are a vicar

This part of the forum is is viewable by everyone.
I've pm'd my gas safe number and contact details to the admins to get access to the private forums but they've not got back to me. I guess my face doesn't fit.

 

[REDSAW]

yes,
this forum is viewable to all including yourself.
the gas safe registered plumbers only forum is not, i think an ordinary member cant even see the link.
if you are registered and wish to access this forum, drop a message to dan or dave for access and be prepared to supply credentials.

 

[Hybrid]

the gas safe registered plumbers only forum is not, i think an ordinary member cant even see the link.
if you are registered and wish to access this forum, drop a message to dan or dave for access and be prepared to supply credentials.

I messaged Dan 3 weeks ago, gave him my gas safe number, name, address and phone number. Nothing.
He may not have got around to checking the details if he's busy. I'm not going to beg lol.

 

[wazzer]

I sent off when I first joined I thought this was the one but its not and I am not invited to the party

 

[VVIC]

Good morning all!

Again, thank you for your kind advice. I had some difficulty in signing in so I apologise for the delay.

As you can probably see I'm an amateur at using these forums. I had a few 'private' messages that...well...weren't certainly in line with the other contributions people have kindly made. Not really sure what their point was. Time wasting I suppose.

I hope these photos help. To answer your question, 'no,' there was no 'bomb' ever used. As best my recollection is last year and two years hence the men who came never once went into the kitchen to check the gas metre.

Interestingly, I received in the post yesterday an envelope, (with a large red stamp saying it had been mis-posted to Bermuda of all places...(wish that would happen to me!). It contained a document from the recent engineer covering his work and validating the fact that the gas pipe was not connected properly. There was also a note that my cooker didn't have a chain bolting it to the wall. I gather this wasn't so outrageous an infringement that my home has been closed down and my cooker confiscated...thank goodness!

I've again spoken with several neighbours and they all have stated that this year was the first time by their recollection that any gas inspection included a leak check. But I'm somewhat skeptical about this as several of them are quite elderly and often can't recall what they had for lunch.

You are very kind to have found some information regarding the possibilities of natural gas poisoning. I will read through it more thoroughly this evening. The symptomologies all appear appropriate to what I've experienced though.

Yesterday I made the first step and made an appointment to speak with a solicitor. I'm not sure where I'm headed with this. But the greatest fear, the part I'm losing sleep over is whether there are other people who have been (forgive me for using such a strong term) victimised by what has happened.

We, the general public, are ignorant to possibilities of what can happen and we trust those professionals who are sent to provide services HM government clearly sees as important enough to make a law regarding annual inspections.

As I say, no idea where I'm headed with this, but I'll keep you abreast.

Again, thank you for your kind thoughts and advice.

Fr B+

 

[VVIC]

I thought I'd add one other thing...rather an important lesson. I read your notes about oxygen starvation. Bingo! In the sitting room, quite close to the fire, is a small white grille, which I now understand is that ever-essential spot for fresh air to come in or interior air to escape. Unbeknownst to me that it was actually there, there has been a small bookcase in front of the grille for at least ten years. I'm not sure whether that's enough to completely starve the room of air flow but I'd gather it's a start.

My daughter had a canary several years ago. It was generally happy and chirpy. Came home one afternoon and it was dead. No idea why especially considering how happy it seemed six hours earlier. Now I think I know why. That's just an aside, but again more data to suggest something was wrong.

Oh and as for the methane under the sheets story; I'm not sure that isn't a piece of lore that has been passed around for many years. I should think the poor flatulent individual would have had to be the size of the QE2 to have produced such volume necessary to effect mortality. But who knows.

 

[wazzer]

the tape is to protect the pipe from corrosion not to seal it the solder has not run properly this may have been ok on installation but obviously leaked after and should have been spotted this is why a tightness test should be done.I have done LGS certs in the past no drop but later called out to smell of gas and the joint not soldered it was sealed with flux

 

[Hybrid]

Wazza is right. You can see on the connector the lead solder which hasn't penetrated the joint correctly.
I think the previous engineer was indugling in a little hyperbole when he said he'd never seen anything like it and it was being held together with tape.
We've all seen and heard of incidences where fittings haven't been made correctly but pass the standard tests for soundness on installation.
It seems this fitting passed the initial check and due to being wrapped with anti corrosive tape passed any subsequent tests.

That said it's still an unacceptable situation, there's been a gas leak due to bad workmanship so it should be reported to the HSE.

 

[armourer]

As above the photos show a solder joint wrapped against corrosion.

That said if the engineer was carrying out a full landlords safety certificate there are sections on the CP12 where he would have signed for the tightness check (at the meter) and also a box to say the ventilation was correct (ie correct size and not blocked).

How long has passed since the last certificate and this latest inspection? and who is to say it has not failed since then?
A joint like this is impossible to spot with the eye and the previous engineer would have relied solely on a tightness check.

If the air vent is the only one into the room and it was blocked then that should have been noticed but I cannot see how you can blame the previous engineer for the leak?
After all looking at the boiler it was installed 15 maybe 20 years ago and I would be very surprised if records exist saying who installed it.

My advise would be thankful it has been found and rectified and move on, don't make it into some sort of witch hunt.