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Discuss Nibe F2015 Air Sourced Heat Pump... Chances of selling second hand? in the Renewable Energy area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

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  1. Ian woodward

    Ian woodward New Member

    Hi Dave
    Are you still thinking of selling the unit
    I would be interested in purchasing
    Ian
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2017
  2. poorman

    poorman New Member

    We've had a nibe F2015 since 2011 as you can see from previous posts and I'd agree that the costs can be really high, ours was originally installed when it was a council house and were advised to run it on economy 10 and leave as it was set up.
    We have never switched the immerse heaters on even in the winter and run it on manual setup, we have a water solar panel fitted to the system which is useless in the North West Highlands.
    WE switch off the heating side to so it only supply hot water in the summer and use the boost at any other times so it provides us with enough hot water, 145 litres.
    We now own the house and have had external insulation fitted by Eon, its a 1950 house with solid brick walls and the nibe now heats the house very quickly.
    I have though fitted a multifuel stove that we use in the evenings during the winter, it warms most of the house and makes it very cosy.
    We moved from "recommended" economy 10 to a standard tariff and last year, 2016 our electricity was just under £900. our wood was £297, still got a third left of it left over,and we use calor for cooking which costs under £100 a year.
    The nibe is clean, quiet and apart from the expansion tank needing replaced works well.
    Nibe said that they need to be fitted to extremely well insulated houses.
    Which is a must.
    The council knew nothing about these pumps and were just complying with government regulations to lower their council property carbon foot prints, I think they actually meant turn the office heaters down but decided to pass it on to their council tenants.
    Unless you are prepared to run it as we do and not leave it to its own madness I would bin it, the first winter after we had it fitted it ran after midnight for 4.30hrs constantly on high peak rate which where we live was 19.40kwh, the dearest electricity in the UK from hydro electric. Today we are on 12.3p standard British gas.
    As for second hand buyer will you find a buyer? Our council have been replacing them first with wood chip boilers, but they had problems with them catching fire, so are now back to air source and ground source heat pumps but not with Nibe.
    I would accept the offer if it is to replace the nibe with a gas boiler.
     
  3. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber

    Anything installed prior to about 2013, usually has major installation issues, we'd scrap it after properly de-gassing it.

    This year as previous years, about 20% (of the number of projects) of our Air source work is fixing other installers c**p installations. I wouldn't touch it!
     
  4. Sparkgap

    Sparkgap Active Member

    ASHP fine for low temp systems such as UFH but for getting proper hot water temps (60C) or high temps for rads and convectors the efficiency drops through the floor and they need immersion heater backup. By 'suitable for a nordic climate' I take it means they can operate at sub zero outside temps.
    I'd beware what info manufacturers give for performance: had a commercial UFH off a 75kW ASHP however manufacturers were quoting standard figures based on 7C outside temp. When I said we wanted performance for -4C outside (specified operating conditions) they resized the unit to 100kW which in turn caused issues with a replacement substation which was going in. Go for gas anyday!
     
  5. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber


    PROPERLY designed and installed systems cause no problems - we have loads of more than satisfied customers. We design in Worcestershire for -5°C outdoors and appropriate flow temperatures depending upon emitter type and design. When sized correctly, radiators can run at 45°C flow - we do it all the time with no problems. We have heat pumps that can happily go down to -20° at full outuput.

    Not only that we design OUT the immersion heater backup systems, indeed the MCS standard doesn't allow you to consider the immersion backup in normal operation.

    Choosing the right type of heat pump for the designed environment is critical. Manufacturers quote A7/W35 as a default because that is the EU standard, performance figures for designed outdoor temp and flow temp are all available.

    Some heatpumps (checkout C02 heatpumps) are more than capable of providing 60° at high SCoP's

    I can point to some terrible boiler installs when they haven't been designed or installed properly, and we come across loads of bad gas and oil installations.

    As I say a badly designed or badly installed system WILL cause problems, - we've just spend 4 days completely reinstalling and reconfiguring a twin ASHP system, it needed replumbing with the correct size pipework, supplying and installing the correct flow controls and configuring the heat pumps correctly. It now runs effectively and efficiently, it was impossible to run it efficiently the way it was previously installed.

    99%+ of plumbers and gas/oil engineers don't have a clue how to install or configure a heat pump system.

    p.s. If you want to spend twice as much on your annual heating than you need to then gas is your correct choice. If your into energy efficiency and reduced running costs, then heat pumps can be the better solution.

    Time for the industry to stop dashing for gas and start to think energy efficiency.
     
  6. poorman

    poorman New Member

    Our biggest problem was exactly what you have said, plumbers not knowing what they were doing from the main contractor down to their two subcontractors but the actual pipe work isn't bad at all that is if you forgive them for installing the two houses with the same pipe work they bent for one!!! The sub contractor that professed to be heat pump engineers made a fortune installing this sort of technology to the council, a fortune.
    So anyway we ended up, passed by our ex council's building control officer, with the system plumbed back to front, our tundish is around the back of the tank as is one of the immersion heaters, which if ever needs replacing will have to be done by a midget contortionist trained as a plumber, we have been told that correcting the plumbers work would be as costly as installing the system.
    But with the house now properly insulated and drafts kept to the minimum the system now works well and brings the house up to 20 degrees quite fast.
     
  7. Sparkgap

    Sparkgap Active Member

    I quite agree. And with the system in question (and also with a couple of wood pellet systems some years ago with a different supplier) we went to supposed 'experts'. In the case of the ASHP it was inconvenient as at the end of the day the main contractor ended up with less spare capacity on the substation, however with the pellet systems the saga dragged on for nearly five years and cost a bundle.
     
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