More consideration...

[Welder]

This is for Craig and anyone else who cares to comment.


I'm certainly not saying the installer on the shower pump job has not made mistakes, but so have we all. Just ask yourself if you've ever done anything that , in hindsight, you'd like to go back and put right now you know more. I certainly have a few of those!

There are always 'circumstances' and many of those I refer to above were driven by not knowing enough not to listen to customers. What I'm rapidly learning on here is that all too often people demand a cheap job but then come on and complain when it doesn't perform. Sometimes someone 'cheaper', perhaps not even a proper plumber, gets the job and then inadvertantly screws it up. We then pile in in our superior way and condem the poor s0d for trying.

Personally I just feel we should be a little more circumspect altogether and gather a bit more information before we start mowing people down from the hip.

We'd want people to give US that chance, so why wouldn't we give someone else that same chance

 

[Ric2013]

Agreed, Dave.

The reasons I suggested another plumber were because the newest soldering wasn't pretty and those pulled bends on the pump supply and delivery were rippled and seemed to be practically touching one another. I actually wonder whether the 'plumber' could have the original poster.

What wasn't clear was what the plumber's remit was and how much of that lash-up he or she was responsible for. It looks like someone's been told to do the minimum required to get it working and hasn't been confident or experienced enough to say that the customer's expectations are unrealistic, so I do agree we need to know the background.

I was trying to strike a balance between getting the point out that that setup needed to be started almost from scratch and wasn't easily going to be tweaked into service, and an awareness that the work carried out didn't look great either. If you feel that I was one of those that could have handled this better, can you please say how you would have phrased it because I agree with your comments above and I'm not sure if I struck the right balance or not, so any constructive criticism would be welcome.

 

[Welder]

Not having any sort of go at anyone Ric. I'm just learing that the general pubic are mostly arses looking to blame everyone else but themselves so we may do well to consider that as a group.

I notice the OP has avoided answering the most important of my questions... For me it sends a subtle message

 

[Old Account]

But how often you go out to quote jobs and they do not even bother you to call you, yo text you,to at least that you know thT your quotes was out of their budget or they want somebody cheaper? Most of the time they go with somebody cheaper and then the moaning starts that he didn’t do the right Job. Very often they call you days, weeks later or even months later to come back to fix the works. The OP wants to learn mostly the hard way and that’s by choosing the inexperienced plumbers, or even Allrounders.
I definitely agree with certain things you have described above. It is surely not right to put the other engineers down and even comment on their screwed up works.

But to be fair it’s starts with chasing the materials which means you have to run around to get the materials perhaps you even have to pay upfront and then you can’t even make money on materials. This is a downside in uk that boiler companies and spares shouldn’t be showing their prices to anyone but to the registered engineers. It’s a little bit off topic but there are many things which bothers me in the world of someone who makes a living by working his arse off and not for some big company where you can go home after 5pm and having no headache at all. All who own a company they know how frustrating it can be with owning a company.

 

[Welder]

Quite right.
Thing is, when we slag each other off, those looking on, punters, think we're both stupid AND incompetent and that hurts us all and reduces our value in their eyes. They then go for cheap.

 

[Ric2013]

The OP wants to learn mostly the hard way and that’s by choosing the inexperienced plumbers, or even Allrounders.
I definitely agree with certain things you have described above. It is surely not right to put the other engineers down and even comment on their screwed up works.

I don't know if inexperience is the excuse of the installer in this case. I'm not far out of college myself and can still see multiple faults on that installation. If by Allrounders, you mean not actually plumbers then yes, I agree. They've probably gone for cheap, I agree!

You'll note I avoided slagging off the soldering and pipework and stuck to the technical side, but if even that is going too far, then how does one answer the post at all?

This is a downside in uk that boiler companies and spares shouldn’t be showing their prices to anyone but to the registered engineers.

Some people would see that as an attempt to mislead customers.

Making a mark-up on materials should not be our main source of income and it's one of the things that gives our trade a bad name, especially when plumbers supply unbranded/own brand kit at prices exceeding reputable names. We simply don't buy the quantities to be able to get stuff truly cheap, so of course we're not quite as cheap as the customer supplying materials. I've always been quite upfront about my mark-up on materials (10% on my purchase price) and no one has ever complained. Pimlico is similarly upfront in that respect, though they apply up to a 25% mark-up.

It’s a little bit off topic but there are many things which bothers me in the world of someone who makes a living by working his arse off and not for some big company where you can go home after 5pm and having no headache at all.

I don't know. I think it depends on the job. I plumb, I've done labouring, I work in a cash and carry, and I've worked in an office. My part-time job in a cash and carry is probably the worst-paid of these, but it's the hardest work of all of them if you do it properly. Really, it should pay as much as plumbing!

 

[Ric2013]

Not having any sort of go at anyone Ric. I'm just learing that the general pubic are mostly arses looking to blame everyone else but themselves so we may do well to consider that as a group.

I notice the OP has avoided answering the most important of my questions... For me it sends a subtle message

No offence taken, just wanted you to let me know if you think I'm specifically to blame. I can take criticism, after a little sulk, that is

Well spotted on the evasion. I've prompted the OP for clarification. It could well be that ALL the plumber was asked to do was swap one pump for another. And, if so, he's probably done it very well.

 

[Welder]

Point is that personally I shall refrain from overt criticism of the work of others until I am convinced we (and our experience) are not being used as a blunt instrument by affronted cheap skate punters

 

[SimonG]

See a lot of customers coming on looking to sharpen their knives but being very one sided.

Two sides to every story. But sometimes you just know the work is ****.

 

[Welder]

I've prompted the OP for clarification.

Still no answer which has led me to refrain from commenting. Distinct feeling it's a witch hunt.