Loads of air in central heating.

[Harvest Fields]

No one should feel embarrassed for asking advice on any problem, its a bit like apologizing for asking a stupid question, well as we all know or should know, there is no such thing as a stupid question but there can be plenty of stupid answers.

Yep. I have lots of them.

 

[Chris12345678]

So I bought two of these and some automatic bleed valves for each radiator so it should be fixed by tomorrow morning:

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/flomasta-0647-central-heating-leak-sealer-500ml/6774r

 

[Chris12345678]

I'm joking.

I thought I'd check the where all the boiler pipes come up from the boiler into a crawlspace. I noticed that a motorised valve was open that shouldn't have been, it should have been closed. It is on a 22mm flow and return that goes to a heat exchanger at the bottom of the garden. This circuit hasn't been in use for maybe 8 years. I had checked for leaks at the heat exchanger late last night and walked along the pipe run. I knew that because of our water table being so high in the rear garden that any leak of this size would be clearly visible.
Anyway, looking along it today I lifted a section. A JG plastic connector had come apart, presumably in the recent very cold temperatures. Underneath the pipe was a hole that had channelled all the water under the fence into next doors 'garden'.

I think I must have knocked the valve when I put the christmas decorations away!


Thanks again for your help, your much more helpful / less rude than the people on the electrical forum

 

[Mdljk]

I'm joking.

I thought I'd check the where all the boiler pipes come up from the boiler into a crawlspace. I noticed that a motorised valve was open that shouldn't have been, it should have been closed. It is on a 22mm flow and return that goes to a heat exchanger at the bottom of the garden. This circuit hasn't been in use for maybe 8 years. I had checked for leaks at the heat exchanger late last night and walked along the pipe run. I knew that because of our water table being so high in the rear garden that any leak of this size would be clearly visible.
Anyway, looking along it today I lifted a section. A JG plastic connector had come apart, presumably in the recent very cold temperatures. Underneath the pipe was a hole that had channelled all the water under the fence into next doors 'garden'.

I think I must have knocked the valve when I put the christmas decorations away!


Thanks again for your help, your much more helpful / less rude than the people on the electrical forum

You are very welcome. So it was a leak in the end but one that was hidden. Glad you sorted it out.

 

[Chuck]

there is no such thing as a stupid question

You must be new here.

 

[malx42]

Could be corrosion producing hydrogen

If it was hydrogen you could see if the gas burns as it’s vented from rad ...but highly unlikely in that amount.

 

[Tiggy1955]

Oh, and the CAPTCHA thing on registration doesn't work on 'What is next day after Tuesday?'

Hi,

I had a similar problem with water going back into the FE tank (I believe it's called pumping over). I fitted a new Grundfos UPS2 pump and (at the recommendation of someone on this forum) I set it to one of the "Proportional Pressure" settings. This fixed it and system works treat now. What is confusing though is why the system worked perfectly well for 20 years without this setting and suddenly started pumping over. I'm not a plumber or heating engineer by the way!

 

[Chris12345678]

I turned the pump back up to 3 today.
What’s the problem with that, pumping back into the f&e tank?

 

[John.g]

I turned the pump back up to 3 today.
What’s the problem with that, pumping back into the f&e tank?

Just to clear up a few items, you fixed the leak and and now there is no make up to the F&E tank with system off or on??
After this you had the pump running on speed 1 as suggested by someone above and everything was OK?. you now have switched to speed 3 and have you or have you not got a problem with pump back to the F&E tank??, don't know if you are having a problem with this or are you asking should there be a problem.
What make/model pump have you got?, if its a UPS 2 running on fixed speed 3 then I wouldn't be surprised at pump back to F&E tank or even pump back on fixed speed 2 for that matter.

 

[Chris12345678]

Hi, the pump is a Wilo Gold RS60.
I was asking if having the pump too high is likely to cause pumping back, is that the only problem with having it on too high a setting?

I’ll have to check!

 

[Mdljk]

Water can expand into the vent pipe as it heats up within the system but systems are not designed for water to be pushed up the vent pipe all the time the pump is working. Running a pump faster than necessary can lead to premature failure. A system may rely on the pump being on its max setting in order for all rads to get sufficient heat. But if that leads to pumping-over then careful balancing of all rads can help without increasing pump speed.

 

[John.g]

Hi, the pump is a Wilo Gold RS60.
I was asking if having the pump too high is likely to cause pumping back, is that the only problem with having it on too high a setting?

I’ll have to check!

Running on a high pump setting shouldn't IMO cause any major problems for the pump life, its better to have hot rads than to have a pump that only lasts for say 15/18 years instead of say 20!.

If you have a zoned system or if the rads are fitted with TRVs then while you may not get pump over/pump back with all rads open then you may get it with reduced flow rate which results in increased pump head and may cause it. I would suggest checking the F&F tank for pump over (under these reduced flow rate conditions) through the vent or pump back through the cold feed make up which would result in air being pulled in through the vent pipe, (“cold” feed pipe will be hot). If you are getting problems then turn the pump speed to 2 and see how you get on. Looking ahead to pump replacement time make sure you install a (A rated) pump that has a good number of PP (proportional pressure) AND CP (constant pressure) settings, a Wilo Yonis Pico 1-6 will give you all this but the choice is yours or your plumber, a CP setting may then be more appropriate in your case as you can maintain the highest pump head possible without getting pump over etc as the pump head will be maintained constant irrespective of the required flow rate, it will also give you the maximum head (without pump over) to help you with your “3 rads problem”.

Member Tiggy 1955 (post #77 above) had a pump over/back problem which was very interesting, if you read it through you may find it interesting/informative.

Air in CH system and hot water returning to FE tank via the cold feed

 

[Chris12345678]

Thanks.
Something to read in bed!

I have bought autovents for all the radiators now.
The Alladin Micro vent that screws into a 1/8” nipple looks a bit fragile if it gets knocked though?!

 

[John.g]

Thanks.
Something to read in bed!

I have bought autovents for all the radiators now.
The Alladin Micro vent that screws into a 1/8” nipple looks a bit fragile if it gets knocked though?!

Have you checked the F&E tank, I don't have the pump curves for the
RS 60 but any 6M pump running on speed 3 will certainly tend to pump over or whatever especially as zoning or TRVs shut off.