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I'm hoping for a bit of advice. We are in the process of renovating an old house and as part of that work we are upgrading the old 1980s boiler and gravity fed system with a new boiler and unvented cylinder. I got a load of quotes, went for a guy we thought seemed ok and checked that he was registered. As per their terms, I would pay a 25% deposit on day 1, settled within seven days of invoice and the rest upon completion.

So its a Victorian house and the room that the boiler / tank was going in has a chimney breast. I asked if it would be possible to fit everything down one side and then a cupboard be built around. At the quote stage the plumber said it might be tight, but doable but we would have to see once everything is on site.

Work starts, and I meet the plumber who did the original quote and who's company it is (lets call him Charles) at the house on day 1. He arrives with his colleague (lets call him Rory) and we go through the layout etc again. I leave for work and all is well.

On the second day I get a call from Rory to say that its not going to fit and that he will have to put the boiler one side of the breast and the tank the other side. I said fine, and explained that the rest of the space would be used as storage and so the boiler needs to go as high as possible so we can still use the space underneath and similarly on the right we will be using the space above the tank on the right as an airing cupboard. I also followed up with text with this information in and Rory replied saying ok.

When I came home that night I was a little bit concerned to still see the boiler and tank still unopened and in its packaging, as how did he know it all didnt fit without at least offering it up.. anyway. Two days later its installed, and the boiler is not as high as it can go, there is a 35cm space from the topside of the flue to the ceiling, and then on the other side the expansion vessel is located high up away from the rest of the tank. I complain to Charles and Charles agrees on the phone to move it. I asked about the position of the boiler and get told that its been put there for 'maintenance' purposes. We had some further issues when Rory got a bit heavy handed with the soldering gun and burnt the walls and stairs because it appears no mat was used. The smell was so bad from the stairs that we actually thought there was a leak and called out an emergency inspection - he couldn't find any leaks and said the smell must have been the charred wood.

The job was finished and I called out Charles to the property for a site inspection and we weren't happy. He explained that everything had been done for ease and maintenance in mind, and that he wouldn't be moving anything unless we were willing to pay for it. I asked about the position of the boiler and he states that its down to Worcester regulations. So I spoke with Worcester myself who said that they only advise a 120mm space between the top of the boiler (to accommodate the flue) and as long as flue joints are visible then there would be no other restrictions. (From the top of the boiler to the ceiling we had a 400mm gap). Another issue we had was that the quote stated that he would carefully remove the old boiler, but he hasn't done it and said that it wasn't worth his while (I'd told him that we would be extending the kitchen next year - he basically said it would be a lot easier for us to do it at a later date). So overall we weren't that impressed - especially as they have now drilled a massive hole in our wall for the flue.

He eventually got round to invoicing me the 25% deposit so I paid that to make sure I didn't breach our contract. Charles has now issued a gas safety certificate of the work done but its in his name and not that of Rory - from what I am aware Rory did all the work. I have questioned why this is with Charles. So I am now trying to get the ID of Rory but Charles is not being forthcoming with the information saying that he's not registered under his company, but its ok as the certificate and guarantee is issued under his company.

So where do I go from here (other than punish myself for not insisting to see the gas safe ID of Rory on day 1) - I understand that I have to give them the ability to put it right, but I've lost any trust in them and don't really want them working on the property anymore. The deposit doesn't cover the materials, so I am also conscious that he has got a business to run and cash flow to manage but I'm reluctant to settle the final bill at this stage.

Has anyone got any advice as to what I can now do. Thanks
 
Any pics of the install
 
Hello Mr Ribble,

From what I can gather you have some form or written agreement (the text). If you’re not happy then maybe speak to citizens advice? Also regarding the gas safe issue, if you’re not happy with this, then contact gas safe with your concerns.
 
There maybe restrictions externally, as to why the boiler couldn’t go higher.
 
That may be true, however neither plumber has stated that the location was determined due to external flue restrictions. To date, the only reason has been simply due to ease of maintenance at a later date. He also stated that the manufacturer requires the installer to leave lots of access at the top to allow for topping up of the boilers internal expansion vessel etc etc.

I guess at this stage the actual positioning is an aside. If they cant supply the ID of the actual installer then I will call gas safe and take it from there.
 
Would you need a ladder to work on the boiler?
Pics would be helpful
 
On the inside you might need a small step ladder to access the flue if it were higher yes. And you would probably need a ladder would be on a sloping roof. Which makes me think that the final location has been determined by the extent of his reach when stood on the roof (he jumped out the window as he left marks all over the windowsill). Does this change things - they would have known this when they quoted? I appreciate that it does make it harder to access the flue from outside at later dates. But non of this was ever explained to me as the client.

He actually told me that it was my fault, and that I should have been on site throughout the whole week. When I said I have a job, he said that all his clients take the time off as holiday..

Anyway, I will post pics tonight
 
I'm hoping for a bit of advice. We are in the process of renovating an old house and as part of that work we are upgrading the old 1980s boiler and gravity fed system with a new boiler and unvented cylinder. I got a load of quotes, went for a guy we thought seemed ok and checked that he was registered. As per their terms, I would pay a 25% deposit on day 1, settled within seven days of invoice and the rest upon completion.

So its a Victorian house and the room that the boiler / tank was going in has a chimney breast. I asked if it would be possible to fit everything down one side and then a cupboard be built around. At the quote stage the plumber said it might be tight, but doable but we would have to see once everything is on site.

Work starts, and I meet the plumber who did the original quote and who's company it is (lets call him Charles) at the house on day 1. He arrives with his colleague (lets call him Rory) and we go through the layout etc again. I leave for work and all is well.

On the second day I get a call from Rory to say that its not going to fit and that he will have to put the boiler one side of the breast and the tank the other side. I said fine, and explained that the rest of the space would be used as storage and so the boiler needs to go as high as possible so we can still use the space underneath and similarly on the right we will be using the space above the tank on the right as an airing cupboard. I also followed up with text with this information in and Rory replied saying ok.

When I came home that night I was a little bit concerned to still see the boiler and tank still unopened and in its packaging, as how did he know it all didnt fit without at least offering it up.. anyway. Two days later its installed, and the boiler is not as high as it can go, there is a 35cm space from the topside of the flue to the ceiling, and then on the other side the expansion vessel is located high up away from the rest of the tank. I complain to Charles and Charles agrees on the phone to move it. I asked about the position of the boiler and get told that its been put there for 'maintenance' purposes. We had some further issues when Rory got a bit heavy handed with the soldering gun and burnt the walls and stairs because it appears no mat was used. The smell was so bad from the stairs that we actually thought there was a leak and called out an emergency inspection - he couldn't find any leaks and said the smell must have been the charred wood.

The job was finished and I called out Charles to the property for a site inspection and we weren't happy. He explained that everything had been done for ease and maintenance in mind, and that he wouldn't be moving anything unless we were willing to pay for it. I asked about the position of the boiler and he states that its down to Worcester regulations. So I spoke with Worcester myself who said that they only advise a 120mm space between the top of the boiler (to accommodate the flue) and as long as flue joints are visible then there would be no other restrictions. (From the top of the boiler to the ceiling we had a 400mm gap). Another issue we had was that the quote stated that he would carefully remove the old boiler, but he hasn't done it and said that it wasn't worth his while (I'd told him that we would be extending the kitchen next year - he basically said it would be a lot easier for us to do it at a later date). So overall we weren't that impressed - especially as they have now drilled a massive hole in our wall for the flue.

He eventually got round to invoicing me the 25% deposit so I paid that to make sure I didn't breach our contract. Charles has now issued a gas safety certificate of the work done but its in his name and not that of Rory - from what I am aware Rory did all the work. I have questioned why this is with Charles. So I am now trying to get the ID of Rory but Charles is not being forthcoming with the information saying that he's not registered under his company, but its ok as the certificate and guarantee is issued under his company.

So where do I go from here (other than punish myself for not insisting to see the gas safe ID of Rory on day 1) - I understand that I have to give them the ability to put it right, but I've lost any trust in them and don't really want them working on the property anymore. The deposit doesn't cover the materials, so I am also conscious that he has got a business to run and cash flow to manage but I'm reluctant to settle the final bill at this stage.

Has anyone got any advice as to what I can now do. Thanks
Ok I have read your post and there are certainly issues here.
You might post your fixed price
quotation ...remove the identities so we can see.

If you consider you have been
ripped of ...1 call trading standards...2 call police
that will be a civil /criminal matter
I would be most certainly worried about the safety of my
property first retribution next.

Get a new Gsr in to check
AND pay for a report up front
I would suggest ÂŁ300 +

let us know what you do and how it pans out chking
/
 
A couple of things. If Charles is a small business and employs Rory. Then the gas safe number will probably belong to Charles but Rory should have an Engineer Id number. What model of Worcester boiler is it?
 
Greenstar 30i

Having asked again I finally got a response. They refuse to give Rory's ID as its personal information and they are not divulged to do so. I said the law says otherwise.

They've come back and said "oh, well Rory only did wet work and dry gas runs and Charles did the gas connections"

This is now with Gas Safe and Trading standards and I'm seeking legal advice. I don't want to say any more here given the ongoing circumstances. Thanks for the advice so far and when it does eventually resolve I will let you know.
 
Greenstar 30i

Having asked again I finally got a response. They refuse to give Rory's ID as its personal information and they are not divulged to do so. I said the law says otherwise.

They've come back and said "oh, well Rory only did wet work and dry gas runs and Charles did the gas connections"

This is now with Gas Safe and Trading standards and I'm seeking legal advice. I don't want to say any more here given the ongoing circumstances. Thanks for the advice so far and when it does eventually resolve I will let you know.
No worries. Would you like the thread locked so no further responses can be made?
 
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