Is this work acceptable (pics)? Central heating system

[alunmorris]

Just had this work done. I'm concerned about the longevity of the joints in this speedfit installation. Please comment on the pics.

https://8fnd1q.sn2.livefilestore.co...D4FJrM_aOJpVghtTyigpmA4t/plumbing1.jpg?psid=1
https://8fnd1q.sn2.livefilestore.co...QgPiQ1j2DJeh8Ids2IxmMcFW/plumbing2.jpg?psid=1
https://8fnd1q.sn2.livefilestore.co...rBw00Kfz168_mN8R_h4UJG26/plumbing3.jpg?psid=1
https://8fnd1q.sn2.livefilestore.co...-nuw3fnl3NhrV6nADHUFBH1t/plumbing4.jpg?psid=1

thanks

 

[wheeto]

It's not how I'd choose to do it, but you get what you pay for. Did you specify an all-copper installation?

As long as the fittings aren't buried in a screed or similar I'd say it's acceptable.

 

[mountainman]

Doesn't look any better than a poor quality DIY job to me.
I would have done it in copper.

Ps. Whatever it is piped up in the pipework needs insulating.

 

[alunmorris]

It's not how I'd choose to do it, but you get what you pay for. Did you specify an all-copper installation?

Our builder hired a plumber. I didn't specify copper. I think Speedfit is fine, it's the joints being under lateral stress that bother me, and no clipping to prevent movement.

 

[mountainman]

I'm not a fan of push-fit personally as I agree with you about the vulnerability of the joints in a constricted area.

As I said before, the job looks DIY standard to me and I'd be unhappy parting with my hard earned readies for something that looked like this.

 

[hammers4spanner]

Im not one for slating other plumbers works as a rule as we are all in same boat trying toe earn a living. However on occasions when you see this type of install i will pass my judgement for what its worth.As already stated it looks a diy install , my guess is that the plumber is not overly experienced .im never a fan how the pipes are drilled through the joists like that and what i did notice is that no indencies (however its spelt) have been used on the speed fit joints.On occasions speed can can jump if none of these are used its rare but does happen .

 

[wheeto]

... no indencies (however its spelt) have been used on the speed fit joints.

Do you mean the collet clips? If so, I've never seen them fitted, especially now most fittings are twist lock. Not saying it's right, just that nobody* does.

*statistically insignificant numbers of installers...

 

[hammers4spanner]

Yep your right nobody does and shockingly alot of plumbers dont know about them.I try to sway away from speed fit personally polyplumb for me.But on occasions i have used them i fit the clips as have known and seen it happen where pressure drops and they ping off .

 

[mountainman]

Correct Wheeto, they are called collets.
To demount the speedfit fitting you push the collar into the fitting thus releasing the clamp.
The collet stops this happening accidentally through pipe movement.

I agree with H4S that we all are trying to make a living but pride in a good job
Is important IMO and leads to recommendations and more work (hopefully)

 

[JCplumb]

As long as the fittings have been 'twist-locked' collets would serve no purpose on the fittings in the pictures above.
Twist-lock don't need collets, pushing the collar into the fitting has no effect once the fitting is locked.
That's not to say that this install is acceptable, it looks a mess as it is. Saying that, I don't know what the circumstances were when the 'plumber' did this, maybe he was on a shoe-string budget and told that other trades would be doing the boxing in, this isn't at final fix stage, so maybe he will clip the pipes etc. when he's connecting the rads up etc.
Time and budget allowing I'd try to use copper over plastic because although it's never happened to me, I've heard of push-fit style fittings failing, but they are becoming more and more commonplace and a well installed plastic system is likely to be reliable for the foreseeable...

 

[wheeto]

Correct Wheeto, they are called collets.

Actually, I was correct to call them collet clips. The collet is present on those fittings (wouldn't work without it!), the collet clip aids pipe ID and might help reduce the chance of accidental disconnection. As JCplumb says, though, if the fittings have the collar tightened as it looks like they have, collet clips don't add much to safety.

 

[mountainman]

I wanted to call them collet clips bit I couldn't find the 'i' on my iPhone
Found it now see iiiiiiiiiiiiiii

 

[spooney54]

As previously said by others not the best looking job but should work providing they are pushed in full socket and tightened.. Always give these fittings a good pressure test before droppng the boards or boxing in.A lot of plumbers just screw/nail the boards down without. I repaired a poly plumb joint last year on a heating extension which ended up with a ceiling repair in living room. I dont like the angle of joint in corner of picture 2. I would also have dropped the pipes under floor boards in picture 2.
dont like to see gobbo over new pipework either,that really ****es me off.

 

[hammers4spanner]

about four years ago i worked on a large site of about 100 flats where it was all plastic install of osma gold . Even tho flats were pressure tested we still had some fittings burst on the actuall collar upon filling with water . Due to the water damage that was caused the company i was working for called the rep on site where the rep basically said on occasions plastic fittings may fail like this and when they do your in the mixer .
These plastic fittings in the picture are fine if system has a steady pressure and decent pressure but if the pressure fluctuates or its low pressure then watch out .I have pulled these fittings off the pipe before on low pressure set ups , just because you have not seen it doesnt mean it never happens .Personall going back to the OP i would call plumb back and just ask to tidy it up a bit.

 

[leelister6]

I generally ask the customer (or the builder who is paying me) if they want copper or plastic and explain the upsides and downsides of both (copper is more expensive and more labour intensive but will last for decades if installed correctly, plastic is quicker so even though very similar in price to copper (including the fittings) will work out cheaper, but the rodents love to eat it, the fittings can blow off and generally looks a dogs bollx. Copper everytime for me unless, told different

 

[Best]

Looks no different to me than most of the plastic plumbing I see done.
A mess, & what probably was an straight forward job in copper. Tends to look like a temporary job. Builder is responsible & he may not have paid the plumber much.
Guess that's all the plastic users offended! :smile:

 

[Guest123]

15mm Speedfit pipe MUST be clipped with plastic spacer clips every 300mm on horizontal runs. Sorry but that job is a mess and as someone else has said, I'd have done it in copper and with soldered joints, especially in areas that have limited access.

 

[Guest123]

Looks no different to me than most of the plastic plumbing I see done.
A mess, & what probably was an straight forward job in copper. Tends to look like a temporary job. Builder is responsible & he may not have paid the plumber much.
Guess that's all the plastic users offended! :smile:

No need to apologise, I totally agree.

 

[SimonG]

The builder hasn't brought in a plumber, it's a builders diy job. Interesting that in pics 3 and 4 that the rad flow and return come off the same pipe. Or thats what it looks like. Might need looking at

 

[markfxy]

In pictures 3 & 4 are flow and return off the same pipe? picture 1 looks like they haven't clean the pipe before inserting into fitting has it been pressure tested

 

[markfxy]

oops sorry Simon just read you're post beat me to it

 

[stevetheplumber]

the newer speed fit doesnt need collets as the fittings twist lock
depending on where this pipework is it may need lagging
in truth no one clips correctly when shoving heating under floors be it copper or plastic personally i like to get a few nail ons on to plastic to stop it moving as the heat goes on other wise it will snake around

 

[Mickyplumb]

As people are saying, it'll no doubt function as needed but just looks like a typical rush job. Shame really. Wanna make sure those two little bits of uncovered copper are protected prior to closing the floor.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

thats a right mess looks like lazy cack work,how the hell do they plan on getting the board back down in pic 2?

 

[Simon F]

picture 2 shows no regard or knowledge of building regs for where to drill or notch a joist.
hand't noticed the one pipe before kept looking at pictures 3 + 4, and yes looks like the same run of pipe set up as a one pipe system or at least that bit.
I think you were perfectly justified to query the quality of the work, it is poor.:thumbs_down:

ps - welcome to the forum

 

[hammers4spanner]

I generally ask the customer (or the builder who is paying me) if they want copper or plastic and explain the upsides and downsides of both (copper is more expensive and more labour intensive but will last for decades if installed correctly, plastic is quicker so even though very similar in price to copper (including the fittings) will work out cheaper, but the rodents love to eat it, the fittings can blow off and generally looks a dogs bollx. Copper everytime for me unless, told different

Do rodents really chew plastic???

 

[mountainman]

They sure do!

 

[hammers4spanner]

I had a squirrel nesting in my loft once and it totally stripped the insulation off all the electric cables god knows how it never electrocuted itself or started a fire , never touched the pipes tho .

 

[tamz]

Looks no different to me than most of the plastic plumbing I see done.

You beat me to that one Best. Pretty par for the course where plastics are concerned, left like a dogs breakfast.

To the OP.
You are the one paying for it so regardless of what anyone else thinks, if you don't think it is acceptable get it sorted.

 

[ADM360]

I was just looking ove 3 & 4 again and it does look suspicously like a 1pipe!!! but who put new 1pipe systems in these days???

need to have a proper look at thet if I were you!!

 

[Hobo128]

Got to say somthing here matey ,first thing is that speed fit used on combi boilers is a no no because the fitting draw air in which in turn reduces the pressure in the system. Really you should have used HEP or polly plumb(the cheaper HEP).
Secondly someone once told me that if you connect copper into a plastic fitting (HEP,Speedfit,polly plumb) the copper over time corrodes the rubber washer inside the fitting causing it to leak.
For me it copper everytime. Copper look class when you have finished if you know how to use it.
Then again time is money!

 

[alunmorris]

I was just looking ove 3 & 4 again and it does look suspiciously like a 1pipe!!! but who put new 1pipe systems in these days???

need to have a proper look at thet if I were you!!

It was and still is a one pipe system. I was advised to replace all the old rads. Most of the ground floor pipes have now been renewed. When I saw the corroded old copper pipes I asked for plastic where set in concrete, which the plumber misunderstood as pipes everywhere to be plastic. I did not know that you are to keep plastic fittings accessible. In fact I later asked for the downstairs pipes to be re-located to be behind the skirting since we had to dry line the lounge walls. The builder agreed but today concreted them in. I was, er, surprised to see how this looked:
https://8fnd1q.sn2.livefilestore.co...I3dQDbn3mAFuP7a4umFZ8_9s/plumbing5.jpg?psid=1

There is no insulation on the pipes under floorboards Surely this wastes heat? I have tired of challenging the builder - he now just replies "it's fine", or "you never clip pipes under floorboards" and "plastic pipes never go wrong".

 

[JCplumb]

Oh dear

 

[ADM360]

Sorry but if you have gone to all the trouble of replacing most of the pipe work and rads in the property, why would the plumber on site not suggest / recomend upgrading to two pipe system?

 

[gasmanrob]

agree with above