Is Oftec compulsory yet?

[Duker996]

I'm wondering if it is compulsory to be Oftec registered yet to install/service oil boilers? All the answers I've found to this question date back a few years so i'm wondering if things have changed in recent years.

I'm just in the process of paying £1000's out on another course at the moment so can't afford to do Oftec right now. We install many oil boilers a year then get an Oftec registered engineer in to commission and sign it off.

I own the up to date Oftec books, always watch the registered engineer closely and know lots about commissioning/servicing already from many years of experience. So i'm thinking of buying a FGA to set boilers up then getting him to check and sign it off up until I get Oftec registered. I'd also like to start servicing some boilers myself, and from what I've read that is legal for me to do right now........unless the rules have changed?

 

[Best]

No, you are supposed to be qualified to service or commission oil boilers.
Installing them is different, from what I hear you can install them, but I would wonder how the warranty would work.
Don't see it all being policed anyhow. What if you service an oil boiler and for some reason, even unrelated to you the boiler puts fumes out and you end up in court without qualifications? You will look like a beginner doing work you know little about in front of a judge.
OFTEC 101 will allow you to service or commission and there are other ways of getting qualified apparently

 

[SimonG]

Basically it was all changed. It used to be the commissioning was the notifiable element but it has been changed to the installation.

Oftec only interested in oftec members. They wont chase rogue elements.

But as best said. You do the work with no qualification to show competence and it all goes pear shaped then you could at worse do time for manslaughter. Cant see a judge taking into consideration that you couldnt afford to do the assessments.

Its the only reason im oftec.

 

[Worcester]

As mentioned elsewhere, there are other bodies that you can be certified competent with for installation (all list on the gov't's website)

Installation or replacement of oil-fired boilers and storage tanks : APHC, Benchmark , BESCA, Blue Flame, Certsure, NAPIT, OFTEC, STROMA

see here: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...604_Building_Work_Leaflet_amended_version.pdf

For servicing and maintenance as mentioned above, for you and your clients safety you should be adequately trained and competent

 

[lame plumber]

part of proving competence is to have membership of a registered body, it's that simple, no membership no competence.

 

[Best]

Basically it was all changed. It used to be the commissioning was the notifiable element but it has been changed to the installation.

My mistake. I thought the install didn't need notified. That means the 101 oftec is not enough.

 

[SimonG]

My mistake. I thought the install didn't need notified. That means the 101 oftec is not enough.

Only changed it in April this year I think. It was to stop any tom dick or harry installing and then getting competent engineer to commission. I personally think its oftec changing the rules to increase their income. Dont think it will work though

 

[Duker996]

I know this isn't the correct way but your basically saying only Oftec registered can install and then any competent person can commission/service?

Also whats to stop anybody installing it and then paying somebody registered to commission it and then saying they installed it?

 

[SimonG]

Not just oftec. As worcester said, there are other competent person schemes.

Want me to notify somebody elses work? No problem 400 in advance. Any issues I walk away and no notification. My registration, my reputation, my rules.

 

[Duker996]

Not just oftec. As worcester said, there are other competent person schemes.

Want me to notify somebody elses work? No problem 400 in advance. Any issues I walk away and no notification. My registration, my reputation, my rules.

I understand completely what your saying, but the registered engineer who has signed ours off sees it as another commission to do and another yearly service. He knows our work is done to high standard and always conforms, he has a look over it then when he's happy to put his name to it he commissions and signs it off.

I know this isn't how it should be done in an ideal world but I don't see how they think this can ever be policed?!

 

[Best]

Very little can be policed properly, especially by the silly system that OFTEC or other bodies use. For example, it is so easy to do same with gas, - install a gas boiler system & pay a Gas Safe engineer to commission it & basically say they did it. We all bend rules.
It's all down to the honesty of the person on the job and it always will be that way.

 

[lame plumber]

the way I see it it, is that those not complying with the regs are undermining my living, so if any approach me they get 2 fingers and reported be it gas or oil. If the installer cant be arsed to get the right quals then they are the ones looking at hassle if and when things go wrong after all who is telling them of technical updates, new regs etc etc if they dont get registered???

 

[Dotty]

Very rare I say this but I agree with Mr Grumpy.

 

[Duker996]

If the installer cant be arsed to get the right quals then they are the ones looking at hassle if and when things go wrong after all who is telling them of technical updates, new regs etc etc if they dont get registered???

If they work closely with the person who signs it off then that person would keep them up to speed with everything. Not correct I know but as Best said, most people bend rules, with the exception of some.

 

[Duker996]

So if i've read correctly, only registered people can install but technically anyone can service/commission.

Or is it only competent people can service/commission which in other words means only registered people can do that as well as install?!

 

[lame plumber]

only registered technicians can install and then commission, if you want a non qualified person fiddling with your boiler crack on, they only have to prove they are competent, and your not competent in the eyes of the law unless you belong to a registered body, are you finally getting the picture yet???

 

[Duker996]

only registered technicians can install and then commission, if you want a non qualified person fiddling with your boiler crack on, they only have to prove they are competent, and your not competent in the eyes of the law unless you belong to a registered body, are you finally getting the picture yet???

Theres no need to try and be patronising now is there Mr Grumpy?

What i'm trying to ask is if the only way to be competent is to be registered then why do they not say only registered people can install, commission and service? Just skip the word "competent" all together.

 

[lame plumber]

only those doing it illegally tell you you dont have to belong to a registered body as laid down in British Standards from which the registered bodies then make up the rules etc, Mr Dipstick

BTW I never try to be patronising....

 

[Duker996]

BTW I never try to be patronising....

Unfortunately some people are just born that way :yawn:

 

[lame plumber]

Only patronizing to those that are low down the Darwinian scale...............

 

[Duker996]

I'm struggling to find the keyboard warrior smiley...........

 

[lame plumber]

Only offered some sensible advice, your choice not to take it initially

 

[SimonG]

OP, you asked a qestion, you were given the answer, no point getting arsey if you dont like the answer.

If you are installing so many boilers as you say then its a poor excuse to say you cant afford to get the qualification.

Take the assessments and join a competent person scheme.

 

[Duker996]

I appreciate everybody's advice on here, especially registered technicians who know more about this subject than me.......hence me asking the question in the first place. I just don't appreciate being patronised when I'm trying to fully understand something.

In my eyes there wasn't a right or wrong answer or one that would please me more than another. I was questioning it further to try and get a definitive answer, and I've learnt that the words "registered" and "competent" are used for different things but basically competent means registered.

All I really wanted was "To install, commission and service you need to be registered" or "to install/commission you need to be registered but anybody can service". Just a straight forward answer like that really.

And some unforseen circumstances have come along which mean I can't afford oftec just yet.

 

[SimonG]

So ultimately if you cant afford it then dont fit them, its simple.

I pay my money to be part of a competent person scheme, so I'm afraid I have no sympathy with somebody trying to justify that it's alright no too. In fact, I find that patronising.

Just my two penneth.

 

[Duker996]

Thats your opinion, whether I agree or disagree is irrelevant.

I just asked a question I didn't fully know the answer to, I wasn't asking peoples opinion if I should or shouldn't install boilers, just what is legal and what is not. Then with the correct knowledge it's up to me to proceed how I choose.

 

[lame plumber]

So having gained the correct knowledge, you need to choose how to proceed.....................

 

[Duker996]

Exactly, Im now thinking of holding off on the other course and making Oftec the priority but i'll have to sleep on that decision.

 

[lame plumber]

Exactly, Im now thinking of holding off on the other course and making Oftec the priority but i'll have to sleep on that decision.

moving up the scale now, you wont have sore knuckles soon

 

[Duker996]

Here's to hoping

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

To my limited cerebral amenity the word 'Competent', in this case, refers to a person who is 'Registered' on a competent persons scheme, be it OFTEC or any other. 'Registered' & 'Competent' do not mean the same thing but you cannot be classed as competent without being registered because the 'Competent' persons scheme 'Registers' your competency.
If that makes any sense

 

[Malcolm Farrow]

The legal position is that the fitting of combustion appliances is work covered by building regulations and should be done under the supervision of the local authority building control department (or LABC). Typically a fee is charged for the pleasure.

In regions where competent persons schemes such as OFTEC are active, because registered technicians have already been assessed and deemed to be competent, they can sign off their own work and there is no need to contact LABC.

Aside from the other benefits of registration, my advice to technicians that want to abide by the law in England and Wales, Channel Islands, and Isle of Man, is that they should consider the price of OFTEC registration against the cost of LABC involvement on each installation.

Regarding the old days of the commissioning technician signing off the installation work, this was never acceptable practice and left the commissioning guy completely exposed. Nowadays, the commissioning of appliances is considered part of the installation work, which comprises of the specification, installation, commissioning, and handover, and is the responsibility of the main contractor, typically the installer.

For a technician’s protection if disputes arise, OFTEC would not condone registered commissioning technicians signing the paperwork for the installation. Once your name and signature is on an installation completion report, it would be very difficult to argue that you are not responsible for the installation.

Hope this clarifies the situaion.

Malcolm Farrow – OFTEC marketing and communications manager

 

[Ray Stafford]

Welcome Malcolm - please feel free to pop in now and then.

 

[Atouchofgas]

Always good to get it from the horses mouth so to speak

 

[SimonG]

Welcome to the forum Malcolm.

Lets play devils advocate for a minute.

You could just add in the local building control fees to the job.

Also when will OFTEC get off the fence and start addressing the issue of non competent installers?