is an ECV actually mainly used as a Service Valve ???

[Dean Williams]

Just need some clarification as to this, if you have a new meter fitted the ECV is used as a service valve , if you need to carry out work on the domestic system you use the ECV as a service valve ..... is the ECV's most common use A SERVICE VALVE ???????

 

[snowhead]

E.C.V.
How many times in it's life does it get used as that, probably Zero.
So it's main use must be as you suggest.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes but it's for emergency for a home owner / tenant to use incase the have a leak etc

 

[Dean Williams]

Thank you Snowhead and ShaunCorbs for your reply's to my Question , this is eventually going to lead to a more in-depth question relating to the gas safety regulations (installations and use) regulations 1998 but i wanted to see if any other gas engineers had any other comments about the ECV definition first, as for your comments you are both completely right about the ECV ......a gas engineer would hopefully not require an EMERGENCY cut off valve ...lol and his only use for this valve would be as a service valve but on the other hand the householder (if not gas safe registered of course) would only use this as a emergency cut off valve .
and now for my next question :-
If you were told to "close any service valve which controlled the supply of gas to the gas meter.......and did not control the supply of gas to any other primary meter........ which valve would that be ??

 

[ShaunCorbs]

For what effect ?

If it's a safety issue turn the ecv off and cap or disc the meter if customer gives you the nod

If no call transport and report the fault

 

[Dean Williams]

For what effect ?

If it's a safety issue turn the ecv off and cap or disc the meter if customer gives you the nod

If no call transport and report the fault

No it's not a safety issue it's a straight forward meter removal job because the property is not occupied and the owner does not want to pay the standing charge for the meter

 

[ShaunCorbs]

No it's not a safety issue it's a straight forward meter removal job because the property is not occupied and the owner does not want to pay the standing charge for the meter

As the meter isn't property of the house holder contact national grid (not on the emergency number) or his supplier

 

[Dean Williams]

As the meter isn't property of the house holder contact national grid (not on the emergency number) or his supplier

lets have the scenario that you actually are working for National Grid or "Cadent" as they are now called and you are carrying out work to comply with regulation 16 section 3 (a) (i) of the aforesaid gas regulations

 

[ShaunCorbs]

lets have the scenario that you actually are working for National Grid or "Cadent" as they are now called and you are carrying out work to comply with regulation 16 section 3 (a) (i) of the aforesaid gas regulations

Cap ecv and label also cap supply pipe

 

[Dean Williams]

Cap ecv and label also cap supply pipe

when you say cap supply pipe !!!!!! what are you referring to there ???????????????? and why would you do that at this stage ??????????

 

[Dean Williams]

when you say cap supply pipe !!!!!! what are you referring to there ???????????????? and why would you do that at this stage ??????????

 

[Last Plumber]

i wanted to see if any other gas engineers had any other comments about the ECV definition

It is a valve for isolating the Gas supply to a property, (normally), including the primary meter and associated pipe work and regulator. It has not always been referred to as an ECV. Hope this answers you first query!

 

[Last Plumber]

If you were told to "close any service valve which controlled the supply of gas to the gas meter...and did not control the supply of gas to any other primary meter.. which valve would that be ??

It would be the valve directly before the Gas meter you were turning off.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

when you say cap supply pipe !!!!!! what are you referring to there ???????????????? and why would you do that at this stage ??????????

Right stop beating around the bush what's gone on / full story please

And you asked that's how they would do it

Supply pipe would be the pipe going to your appliance (copper pipe)

 

[snowhead]

when you say cap supply pipe !!!!!! what are you referring to there ???????????????? and why would you do that at this stage ??????????

Assuming 3 (a) applies, i followed by ii applies, as per Shaun's reply.

 

[Dean Williams]

right .....whats really happening is i am taking National Grid or Cadent as they are now known to task "also known as the "ombudsman" for digging the road up outside my property and disconnecting my gas supply..... they say it had to be done to comply with the statutory instrument 1998 2451 to comply with regulation 16 (3) (b) ant they were legally obliged to do this in line with the Health and Safety Executives guidelines ..... my augment is that this regulation states that that if "ANY" service valve which controls the gas to that meter and does not control the supply of gas to any other primary meter "and" the outlet of the ECV is sealed with an appropriate fitting "and" any live pipe in the premises are clearly marked that the pipe contains gas then no further action is required .......grateful for any comments

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yep that's standard as they don't want you stealing gas

You could just buy a meter set and install it your self and this would be unchecked as your house on there system would say no gas

 

[Dean Williams]

(3) Where a primary meter is removed, the person who last supplied gas through the meter before removal shall—

(a)where the meter is not forthwith re-installed or replaced by another meter—

(i)close any service valve which controlled the supply of gas to that meter and did not control the supply of gas to any other primary meter; and

(ii)seal the outlet of the emergency control with an appropriate fitting; and

(iii)clearly mark any live gas pipe in the premises in which the meter was installed to the effect that the pipe contains gas; and

(b)where the meter has not been re-installed or replaced by another meter before the expiry of the period of 12 months beginning with the date of removal of the meter and there is no such service valve as is mentioned in sub-paragraph (a)(i) above, ensure that the service pipe or service pipework for those premises is disconnected as near as is reasonably practicable to the main or storage vessel and that any part of the pipe or pipework which is not removed is sealed at both ends with the appropriate fitting.

 

[Dean Williams]

Shaun
you can not throw in gas stealing into the equation lol.......its health and safety regulations ,,,,, the police deal with criminal matters lol

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Shaun
you can not throw in gas stealing into the equation lol.....its health and safety regulations ,,,,, the police deal with criminal matters lol

Its as simple as this

It's there supply they can do what ever they want with it

 

[Dean Williams]

and also there are more people stealing gas with a meter in there house than them without a meter lol

 

[ShaunCorbs]

and also there are more people stealing gas with a meter in there house than them without a meter lol

Yes but these people are still on the list and will get caught out due to inspections and meter readings

 

[Dean Williams]

they carnt do what they want with it , they also have to comply with the law

 

[Last Plumber]

right ...whats really happening is i am taking National Grid or Cadent as they are now known to task "also known as the "ombudsman" for digging the road up outside my property and disconnecting my gas supply... they say it had to be done to comply with the statutory instrument 1998 2451 to comply with regulation 16 (3) (b) ant they were legally obliged to do this in line with the Health and Safety Executives guidelines ... my augment is that this regulation states that that if "ANY" service valve which controls the gas to that meter and does not control the supply of gas to any other primary meter "and" the outlet of the ECV is sealed with an appropriate fitting "and" any live pipe in the premises are clearly marked that the pipe contains gas then no further action is required ...grateful for any comments

I think they're looking at 3b.
Is it over 12 months since a meter was attached to the service ?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

they carnt do what they want with it , they also have to comply with the law

They can as it's within the law, you've told them you don't want gas anymore so they've removed the meter and capped the service and now there disconnecting your supply

All within there right to do so

 

[Last Plumber]

where the meter has not been re-installed or replaced by another meter before the expiry of the period of 12 months beginning with the date of removal of the meter and there is no such service valve as is mentioned in sub-paragraph (a)(i) above, ensure that the service pipe or service pipework for those premises is disconnected as near as is reasonably practicable to the main or storage vessel and that any part of the pipe or pipework which is not removed is sealed at both ends with the appropriate fitting.

 

[Dean Williams]

i have only owned the property since Dec 2016 but yes the meter was removed in 2013 as he did not want to pay a standing charge when the property was unoccupied

 

[ShaunCorbs]

i have only owned the property since Dec 2016 but yes the meter was removed in 2013 as he did not want to pay a standing charge when the property was unoccupied

Yes and do you want gas back / reconnecting ?

 

[Dean Williams]

yes .....i not only want the gas back but i am turning it into two flats so i need 2 gas pipes lol ...... insted of paying for one they now want me to pay for 2 supplies

 

[Chalked]

Not sure about the length of time. But the gas supplier can cut off the gas outside the house boundary, if no meter has been present for a given time.
If you have evidence that a supply was in your property at any time in the past. They will for free install a new main.

I have to ask why, if you don't use gas. Are you bothered, that they have cut off supply!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

yes ...i not only want the gas back but i am turning it into two flats so i need 2 gas pipes lol .. insted of paying for one they now want me to pay for 2 supplies

Yes that's common, also might need to up grade your supply to the property

 

[Chalked]

yes ...i not only want the gas back but i am turning it into two flats so i need 2 gas pipes lol .. insted of paying for one they now want me to pay for 2 supplies

Ask them to reinstate the existing supply. But you WILL need to pay for the second one.

 

[Last Plumber]

If you want my opinion, you're on a hiding to nothing.

That service belongs to them. If it hasn't been used in years, they won't go to any trouble to find out what you might be planning in the future.

All they have is a record of it having been capped years ago and no information since.

I know it is not what you want to hear but I'm trying to save you a lot of stress and hard work.

 

[snowhead]

i am taking National Grid or Cadent as they are now known to task "also known as the "ombudsman" for digging the road up outside my property and disconnecting my gas supply...

At the time they dug up and disconnected it was NOT your supply.
It was a deadleg of gas pipe entering a property.

they carnt do what they want with it , they also have to comply with the law

They have complied with the law.

The Gas Regs are not a code of practice they are Legislation set in Law.

Has the supply been dug up since you have owned the property?

P.S Nat Grid /Cadent are not obliged in law to establish whether the property is occupied or not or has changed ownership since removal of the meter.
They also would not have removed the meter, that would have been done by the Gas supplier.

They do have to be notified when the meter has been removed.
Maybe in this case if the supply has only just been disconnected in the street they hadn't been notified of the removal until that time.

 

[Dean Williams]

this is not a straightforward not used gas for years so its fine to cut it off
1.I have recently purchased the property Dec 2016
2. sometime in April/May 2016 i got a post card through the door from a inspector saying he had called and if i did not contact them they were going to cut off the supply "it had a mobile number on the card so i rang him and explained the situation, he said he had noticed building work had started on the property and he would register it on the system
3 some time later got another letter saying they were going to disconnect if i don't ring them or have a meter installed within 28 days (i thought this was sorted and it was just a computer generated letter) obviously not !!!
3. 29th July 2016 vans and men turned up to dig the road up to disconnect supply , i told them i had already explained to the inspector who came a month ago that i was new owner and when ready i would be wanting a meter installed and another new gas supply
4. 4th Aug Rang National Grid on the number they provided to explain that i could not get a meter installed as there was no current MPAN number for this supply as it was registered as disconnected and i needed a live check done ......was left 25mins 18seconds on hold and was just left with all of our agents are busy we will be with you shortly .......after 25mins 18 seconds i put the phone down......... "this call cost me £18 for nothing ,,,this is disgusting ,,,,, i have just sent for and received my phone bill as evidence for my appeal to the ombudsman
5. 5th Aug Rang National Grid Connections Ordinary connections line and asked for a dead live check as i needed it to enable me to get a MPAN number and a meter fitted as they were requesting, Made appointment for engineer to visit 14th Aug 2017
6 Engineer arrived to carry out live check confirmed everything was live ans safe to have an MPAN number issued
7. two weeks later they excavated my front path and disconnected my supply.....i rang to complain they said the information had not been passed to them that i had only just had it checked by one of their own engineers ........corporate incompetence is my name for this .....what do you think ?