Huge clouds of exhaust from new boiler causing upset in the village!

[tonytimms]

I have just had a new condensing oil boiler installed today - Worcester Greenspan Camray 18/25. The problem is that huge clouds of steam or gases are coming out of the flue when it fires. So much so that 2 people from the village have already knocked on the door this morning to warn me that my boiler house may be on fire! Is this amount of exhaust normal? The engineer says it is but I can't believe that. Anyone with any advice or information on this?

Regards

Tony

 

[Ray Stafford]

Your engineer is correct.

The exhaust gases from a condensing boiler are at a lower temperature than from your old boiler (because the boiler design recovers more heat from the flue gases).

The resultant plume is much more visible, particularly on a very cold day, and also rises less quickly.

Your old boiler was also emitting much the same gases (probably worse since it was old and likely to be burning less cleanly), but it wasn't so visible. The noticeable plume is a price you pay for greater efficiency. There are plume diverter kits available to raise the level of discharge if the plume is causing a nuisance.

A quick google search on "condensing boiler plume" will reveal 1000s of the questions the same as yours, with much the same answer that I have just given.

 

[tonytimms]

Your engineer is correct.

The exhaust gases from a condensing boiler are at a lower temperature than from your old boiler (because the boiler design recovers more heat from the flue gases).

The resultant plume is much more visible, particularly on a very cold day, and also rises less quickly.

Your old boiler was also emitting much the same gases (probably worse since it was old and likely to be burning less cleanly), but it wasn't so visible. The noticeable plume is a price you pay for greater efficiency. There are plume diverter kits available to raise the level of discharge if the plume is causing a nuisance.

A quick google search on "condensing boiler plume" will reveal 1000s of the questions the same as yours, with much the same answer that I have just given.

Thanks for the information. I can't believe this is normal and can understand why Worcester or any other provider do not provide this information beforehand, this is probably because it would be a definite no-sale situation, I certainly would not have bought a condensing boiler if I had known this. I am expecting a knock on the door from my neighbour at any minute and quite frankly I cannot blame them, especially after looking on the internet and finding that the exhaust is acidic and potentially harmful. I'm also sure it won't be long before the environment police come and take me away for causing a nuisance or polluting the whole village!

Regards

 

[Howsie]

In a way your boiler is on fire, it'd be pretty useless if it wasn't.

You've been given good advice by industry professionals and have ignored it.

You have two options.

1) get a plume management kit
2) remove the boiler and put the older less efficient and MORE polluting boiler on the wall.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Thanks for the information. I can't believe this is normal and can understand why Worcester or any other provider do not provide this information beforehand, this is probably because it would be a definite no-sale situation, I certainly would not have bought a condensing boiler if I had known this. I am expecting a knock on the door from my neighbour at any minute and quite frankly I cannot blame them, especially after looking on the internet and finding that the exhaust is acidic and potentially harmful. I'm also sure it won't be long before the environment police come and take me away for causing a nuisance or polluting the whole village!Regards

Chill out mate.

Firstly, you didn't have any choice in the matter, other than to keep mending the old boiler. All new domestic boilers in the UK (with some very minor exceptions) are now condensing, it is a legal requirement, and has been for some years. I guess you must be the first person in your village to replace a boiler in the last few years. Driving to work this morning through Portsmouth I saw plenty of pluming boilers.

Secondly, I think you are confusing condensate (the liquid which is drained from the boiler via a plastic pipe), with the exhaust gases (which are coming out of the flue). The liquid condensate is mildly acidic but so long as your engineer has installed it properly, does not present any environmental risk. The flue gases are almost certainly LESS harmful than, and at worst the same as your old boiler was emitting. They are merely more visible, particularly on a cold, still day.

You are saving money on your fuel bill and helping save the planet. Congratulations

 

[tonytimms]

As I have just bought this boiler in the last few days so purchasing another is not an option. How efficient is a plume management kit and what does it involve? To see an image of the plume go to BBC Weather. The large cloud you can see over north Wales is coming from my boiler!

 

[Ray Stafford]

A plume management kit doesn't affect the efficiency to the best of my knowledge. It simply ducts the plume a few feet upwards or sideways - usually away from a walkway or pavement or somewhere else where it is causing a nuisance. This assumes that your existing flue is horizontal. If you already have a vertical flue (coming upwards out of the roof) then there isn't much to be gained.

 

[Howsie]

To see an image of the plume go to BBC Weather. The large cloud you can see over north Wales is coming from my boiler!

That did make me chuckle.

 

[plum ber]

times two on that!!

 

[peteheat]

As I have just bought this boiler in the last few days so purchasing another is not an option. How efficient is a plume management kit and what does it involve? To see an image of the plume go to BBC Weather. The large cloud you can see over north Wales is coming from my boiler!

Prone to a little exaggeration are we?

Seriously if the plume is causing a nuisance like drifting too near windows or doors then a plume kit is called for.

On the plus side you can go to the local pub and tell everyone how your new boiler is 98% efficient, in fact so efficient looks like it's burning water!

 

[snowhead]

And when the Local people comment on your plume, point out that if they don't have one they are causing far more pollution than you are now.

With any luck you'll get them all jealous and they'll all want to change to condensing, then none of you will be able to get out the village due to the MASSIVE clouds.

 

[Dannypipe]

The plume on a condensing oil fired boiler can freak people out. I've had it too, with clients asking worried questions about the plume of steam coming from the boiler.

To put it in laymans terms, your old boiler was ejecting so much heat from the flue gasses, that they didn't show up in atmosphere. The new boiler you have is making the most of the fuel it is burning. The colder the weather the worse it will look.

I say worse, from a customers point of view it's bad, from our point of view it's good. A condensing boiler is an efficient boiler.

 

[mike-c]

Thanks for the information. I can't believe this is normal and can understand why Worcester or any other provider do not provide this information beforehand, this is probably because it would be a definite no-sale situation, I certainly would not have bought a condensing boiler if I had known this. I am expecting a knock on the door from my neighbour at any minute and quite frankly I cannot blame them, especially after looking on the internet and finding that the exhaust is acidic and potentially harmful. I'm also sure it won't be long before the environment police come and take me away for causing a nuisance or polluting the whole village!

Regards

Bet you won't be saying that next year when you see how much cheaper it is to run over your old boiler.

 

[Best]

The plume that you see is only water vapour & actually is a cloud! It is always better with a condensing oil boiler to have as high a flue as possible, preferably high on a roof, so the plume is high up & not so visible.

 

[jase158]

I had a boiler on full blast earlier, couldnt even see out the window, due to steam, take a look at the back of your car in the morning and you will see steam (are u going to change your car)

 

[WHPES]

When we get past this cold spell you will hardly notice it.

 

[tonytimms]

I had a boiler on full blast earlier, couldnt even see out the window, due to steam, take a look at the back of your car in the morning and you will see steam (are u going to change your car)

No, but I don't live in my car!

 

[Howsie]

Or drive your house to the shops.

 

[Dotty]

At the end of the day Tony you are in a far better position with your condensing boiler emitting a plume than your neighbours who aren't. You will find that you cannot legally replace a band a boiler with a band b in any case!

Give it a year when you find that not only are you being far kinder to the environment than your neighbours but come this time next year you WILL haves halved your fuel bill!

Then you can laugh at them.

 

[peteheat]

My father had a similar reaction from neighbours when we upgraded his heating system, being the first with a properly sized condensing boiler fitted by the "Specialist" was cause for talk.

Today the "Talk" is how does his boiler plume all the time when their new boilers only plume for a short time?

Be proud of a correctly sized and installed heating system that will cost less to use.

 

[dontknowitall]

Hi Tony


I'm going to post a different point of view.

I installed one of these boilers (albeit a larger one) a year or so ago with another OFTEC engineer.

There was a restriction for the flue but we measured properly and accurately and it fitted according to Worcester's guidelines. The plume was quite impressive, the customer commented on it, the weather was ripe for plume clouds, the gas readings were well within the settings required and so on.

The customer was not best pleased and my mate told him this was normal. I was uncomfortable. It was rather more than I'd noticed on most installations.

Fate happened. The boiler locked out 2-3 times over the next week or so. My mate was beginning to worry about Worcester coming out under the warranty scheme and we decided (with the customer and a phone call to Worcester) that we should extend and angle the flue.

The plume (same weather) all but disappeared!

So - longish story - if you do come back, perhaps you can post a piccie or two of the external part of the installation, including a photo well away from the flue to show the surrounding area. The manufacturer's measurements on the limits require adjusting, in my opinion.

(The locking out? Still happened till Worcester came out and changed a small item on the burner. All hunky dory now!)

 

[tonytimms]

Ok it seems I was a bit hasty in my original comments on the size of the exhaust plume from the boiler but it was also the reaction of neighbours and passers by that got me a bit worried. It seems that I am one up on them all and if they do complain again I can try and convert them to the benefits of a condensing boiler and we can all live in a permanent mist. To overcome the problem of people knocking on the door saying my boiler house is on fire I nailed a notice on the door PLEASE NOTE!! THIS BOILER HOUSE IS NOT ON FIRE! the plume of smoke is caused by the latest in thermal technologies and my efforts to reduce carbon dioxide emissions and help save the planet!

However the notice is not visible because of the exhaust plume so I have sited it 30 metres down the road and everything is ok now!

Thanks for all your comments and wish you all a Merry Xmas.

Regards

 

[dontknowitall]

...The plume (same weather) all but disappeared!...

Why did I bother?


It's attitudes such as this that's a big reason I don't post here much anymore!

 

[Dannypipe]

Why did I bother?


It's attitudes such as this that's a big reason I don't post here much anymore!

Whats up mate?

 

[Nostrum]

You village people (pun intended) don't half get your knickers in a twist over the slightest change. Heaven forbid if anyone changes the colour of their front door without consent from the village council and all that.

Look at it the other way, if we don't imbrace a little change you'd be living in a constant smog before long, never mind a bit of plume.

 

[dontknowitall]

Whats up mate?

Me trying to help and ...

well ...

maybe I've got pmt ...

 

[lame plumber]

Me trying to help and ...

well ...

maybe I've got pmt ...

:chillpill:

 

[SimonG]

Two pages of stuff on a correctly functioning condensing boiler. I'm with dkia.

 

[Dotty]

Two pages of stuff on a correctly functioning condensing boiler. I'm with dkia.

That wasn't the point DKIA was making, I hadn't considered a problem with the fluing! But then I think that was an isolated incident but still worth considering.

 

[SimonG]

That wasn't the point DKIA was making, I hadn't considered a problem with the fluing! But then I think that was an isolated incident but still worth considering.

I meant the pmt

 

[Dotty]

Ah! Missed that lol.

Mrs Croppie thinks I have permanent pmt where UI's are concerned.

 

[dontknowitall]

Funny how some writing on the internet forums can be taken the wrong way so easily.

The point I was making was that there were loads of posts telling the OP that this pluming was normal - it is.

I decided, in light of an experience, that I'd give a different thought and started my thread with this so the OP might have a read of it rather than thinking it was "yet another" post agreeing with the others.

The OP seemed to ignore my post COMPLETELY. If he'd read it, he might have asked why the need for photos. He might have thought about phoning the manufacturer. He might even have said, "Thank you." He might have posted a photo or two and then some of us might have seen the reason for excessive pluming.

It could easily be a fluing issue as in my case. The manufacturers can only give their best guidelines and it might not suit every single installation.

The reason I later mentioned pmt was to make light of the matter. It does annoy me, though, that when you do make a genuine attempt to help you are totally ignored.

And, before anyone thinks otherwise, I did agree with all the previous posts about the pluming and am quite happy with all the recent posts as well!!! All I was trying to do was help the OP.

dkianagog
(Dont Know It All's Now a Grumpy Old Git)

 

[dontknowitall]

...dkianagog
(Dont Know It All's Now a Grumpy Old Git)

... with pmt.:tongue:

 

[jase158]

Funny how some writing on the internet forums can be taken the wrong way so easily.

The point I was making was that there were loads of posts telling the OP that this pluming was normal - it is.

I decided, in light of an experience, that I'd give a different thought and started my thread with this so the OP might have a read of it rather than thinking it was "yet another" post agreeing with the others.

The OP seemed to ignore my post COMPLETELY. If he'd read it, he might have asked why the need for photos. He might have thought about phoning the manufacturer. He might even have said, "Thank you." He might have posted a photo or two and then some of us might have seen the reason for excessive pluming.

It could easily be a fluing issue as in my case. The manufacturers can only give their best guidelines and it might not suit every single installation.

The reason I later mentioned pmt was to make light of the matter. It does annoy me, though, that when you do make a genuine attempt to help you are totally ignored.

And, before anyone thinks otherwise, I did agree with all the previous posts about the pluming and am quite happy with all the recent posts as well!!! All I was trying to do was help the OP.

dkianagog
(Dont Know It All's Now a Grumpy Old Git)

even worse when you post something and spend a lot of time explaining it and someone else posts the exact same and the OP says thank you to them but not you.

 

[dontknowitall]

I've had that a few times but at least they've had the courtesy to thank someone.