How old do we reckon this stopcock is?

[Ric2013]

Owner told me house is 1950s, bottom of stopcock was on soft copper, but seemed to be 15mm OD. If it were not for the seal between body and head being some form of black fibre that looks a little bit like an asbestos washer, I'd say this were a replacement head. The thread of the head to body is a fine thread, not 1/2" BSP.
.

Olives are copper and tapered.

Compression nuts state 'PRESTEX 864-2' and are 1/2" threaded.

Has '31' and kitemark on one side, '1/2' and '>>-P->' symbol on the other side.

Gland seal was black plastic/rubber compound, jumper rotates but is not a loose jumper. The washer fitted was obviously not original. A 1/2" fits well, though it seems a tad thicker than the jumper was designed for. The washer pushes onto a nib on the jumper: there is no nut in this design.

And now I've cleaned it up and got it working, what the heck am I going to do with it lol?

 

[Deleted member 96286]

It's an old imperial stopcock. The ends of the pipe were flared out with a drifting tool and then the tapered olives were inserted into the flared out pipe ends. Made from high quality heavy brass and drifted fittings were still in use in the U.K up until the 1980's. Goad, I feel old now remembering these fittings! A Yorky tap adapter will screw on to these, if you're looking for a short term fix. You're right mate about the innards and handle being replaced as that's not the original.

 

[Ric2013]

The pipes were not flared in this instance and the olives were used just like modern olives. Perhaps using this fitting as a manipulative fitting was an optional? I pulled the olives off with an olive puller.

This was replaced with a lever valve, so no need to repair, though it would be interesting to know what you mean by a Yorky tap adapter in case I need one one day.

In any case it now works perfectly. For some reason I felt an urge to descale this an repack the gland. Probably not low-lead brass so would be illegal to fit on potable water?

What did the original head look like, I wonder?

 

[Best]

I work with those all the time, but not certain what original head looked like.
There was a head similar to that replacement, with a flat and pointed handle.
It is made by Peglers.
Prestex is Peglers I believe.
Those old tapered copper olives were very beefy and top quality.

 

[Deleted member 96286]

Ah the good old olive puller tool, I've just recently bought the Monument olive cutter and it's brilliant too. Really handy for rad tails.
Most of these valves and fittings were drifted fittings and I was taught how to drift fittings at Falkirk College as recently as the late 1970's, old skool but they worked. Good to see these old Prestex valves and impressed that you're doing something with it. Nowadays, if it's not plastic and can't be pushed together, many plumbers are stumped. Don't miss doing soldered ball joints though, that can happily stay in the past! LOL

 

[Harvest Fields]

Recently you say @Cailean ?

 

[Ric2013]

I work with those all the time, but not certain what original head looked like.
There was a head similar to that replacement, with a flat and pointed handle.
It is made by Peglers.
Prestex is Peglers I believe.
Those old tapered copper olives were very beefy and top quality.

Flat and pointed?

 

[Deleted member 96286]

Recently you say @Cailean ?

Aye mate, in the olden days as my kids call it! Ha, ha

 

[Ric2013]

Recently you say @Cailean ?

We were told about them lol. But I suppose they only get used on underground copper, and who uses copper underground nowadays? Though it seems a good idea to use copper underground: totally non-permeable.

 

[Best]

Flat and pointed?

Yes. Sort of flat handles with a pointed end on each. Basically triangular shape. Very similar to the newer type head in photo.
Sore on the hands to turn

 

[Best]

I will admit I have installed those stopcocks and Prestex rad valves with same fine threads and olives when they were brand new.
On that point, those olives are top quality and won’t leak, but on radiator valves they will very slightly show signs of green at pipe below rad nut after admittedly maybe 30 years. This is because copper olives on heating pipes are still too soft

 

[Ric2013]

Good to see these old Prestex valves and impressed that you're doing something with it. Nowadays, if it's not plastic and can't be pushed together, many plumbers are stumped.

Come on, now. The NVQ has quite a lot of copper in the college assessments. Do you mean bathroom fitters trading as plumbers ? I had a mate the other day tell me he was doing someone's bathroom. Seeing as he's trained as a carpenter, I thought 'oh dear!'.

Must say I'm tempted to fit it in my own home under my bathroom cold tap. Given that I have tank hot mains cold, I decided to restrict the cold flow rate at the 1/4 turn isolator before I learned better (and to stop the water splashing out of the basin). Now the isolator is seized, obviously. A screwdown type isolator, on the other hand, would work. But, again, lead brass...ah heck...I'll use it for the washing machine when the existing isolator gives out. That way there'll be a check valve between the stopcock and the mains!

 

[Ric2013]

This is because copper olives on heating pipes are still too soft

Which might explain why Honeywell supplies brass olives. VERY useful to know indeed. Thank you!

 

[Best]

I like to put a stopcock on the mains pipe feeding a filling loop so when it is off, it stays off.
The stupid wee lever valves are dodgy and could get knocked on

 

[Best]

Which might explain why Honeywell supplies brass olives. VERY useful to know indeed. Thank you!

Yes, I am one of the unusual plumbers who prefers brass olives for heating pipes.
(Except on plastic pipes where it must be copper olives obviously)
Getting quality brass olives is the problem though

 

[ShaunCorbs]

i would say around 30-50 years

 

[Jim Goodenough]

And now I've cleaned it up and got it working, what the heck am I going to do with it lol?

Weigh it in of course!

 

[Deleted member 96286]

Yes, I am one of the unusual plumbers who prefers brass olives for heating pipes.
(Except on plastic pipes where it must be copper olives obviously)
Getting quality brass olives is the problem though

Quality brass olives are becoming increasingly difficult to find. The cheaper brass olives are nearly as soft as copper olives and I've seen these having moved on rad tails, despite being tightened up.

 

[Jim Goodenough]

Do Conex still do them? They used to be decent quality - that's 20 yrs ago mind!

 

[Best]

Do Conex still do them? They used to be decent quality - that's 20 yrs ago mind!

Yes, Conex are still going.
But very expensive.

 

[Ric2013]

Weigh it in of course!

The scrappy said the Loctite 55 used as a gland, the silicone grease used to lubricate, and the hemp used as a kind of threadlock on the gland nut means I would need to pay 10p per kilo to have it scrapped.

 

[Jim Goodenough]

How old do we reckon this stopcock is?

i would say around 30-50 years

As old as it's tongue but younger than it's teeth...

 

[DGT plumbing]

This was replaced with a lever valve

I didn't think lever valves were permitted as stop cocks in WRAS.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I didn't think lever valves were permitted as stop cocks in WRAS.

You are correct sir

 

[Ric2013]

I didn't think lever valves were permitted as stop cocks in WRAS.

Yes they are. See p2.14 G2.8 and R2.8. I have even contacted Pegler's technical department to ask if, in the company's opinion, its full-bore spherical valves 'are suitable for the purpose' and been told 'yes'.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes they are. See p2.14 G2.8 and R2.8. I have even contacted Pegler's technical department to ask if, in the company's opinion, its full-bore spherical valves 'are suitable for the purpose' and been told 'yes'.

But water board require a stop tap and not a lever valve doesn't matter what manufacturer says

 

[Ric2013]

WRAS says it's okay. The point about the manufacturer stating suitability is to ensure compliance with R2.8 (in any case, G2.8 specifically accepts spherical valves). Which water board are you referring to anyway? I'm Anglian, not Severn Trent.

Have you looked at the WRAS guide where I suggested?