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  1. zzzjim

    zzzjim Well-Known Member

    Freed up a pump once only to discover now had a washing up bowl full of Graphite
    (not sludge/ non magnetic) . dried out like carbon --and sloppy bearings
    (from when dry cells had carbon rods in them !)
  2. rpm

    rpm Trusted Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Ok, still not with you re from when dry cells had carbon rods.

    Could it be a packed gland pump ?
  3. doitmyself

    doitmyself Well-Known Member

    How would the cynics explain the savings found in the Case studies?

    You have to "Read More" to see the details of each study.
  4. Stigster

    Stigster Plumber

    Does EndoTherm include an energy balancing bracelet and an anti-radiation crystal with every order?

    I've got some oil a snake sold to me out of the back of a van. It can do everything EndoTherm can and also makes nice fried eggs. He tried to sell me a cheap expensive mattress at the same time so I bought ten.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Chuck

    Chuck Active Member

    Serious case studies need to avoid a lot of methodological problems. For example:

    A. 'confirmation bias'. E.g. someone who has bought a product has a vested interest in not looking like a fool. See for example:

    Confirmation bias - Wikipedia

    B. Sample selection effects. Q. Who is most likely to try such a product? A. Owners of older plant that is inefficient and poorly controlled.

    C. Publication bias. Only positive results are published, negative ones get quietly forgotten.

    D. Flawed intercomparison methodology based on the on degree-day ratios. See for example:

    Degree Days - Handle with Care!

    E. Changes in occupant behaviour. The fact that a trial is underway raises energy conservation as an issue within the building and people make an effort to be more economical.

    F. Transient effects. Are the savings sustained year on year?

    In my opinion, the case studies that have been made available don't allow one to rule out any of the above issues let alone all of them.

    Anyway, the burden of proof in such matters lies with the company making the claim.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  6. GH77

    GH77 GSR

    The cynicism is based on real world experience rather than lab based results
  7. doitmyself

    doitmyself Well-Known Member

    So you have real world experience of the product being discussed?

    If so, what were your findings?
  8. GH77

    GH77 GSR

    As jtsplumbing says fernox and others have made similar products and i know of no-one in the trade who rates these products, you only have to look at the numerous references of "snake oil" to see the general consensus of opinion, but hey if you think it's going to save you some money then fill your boots
  9. doitmyself

    doitmyself Well-Known Member

    I'll take that as meaning you have NO real world experience of the product.

    According to the patent application, the product is derived from coconuts. Make of that what you like!
  10. GH77

    GH77 GSR

    Take it that the original question in the post was
    "I would be interested to see Members opinions about a relatively new Heating system water additive"

    The operative word being OPINION... ( yes i can write in capitals too )

    • Like Like x 1
  11. Ric2013

    Ric2013 Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Dry (battery) electric cells. E.g. the Every Ready Silver Seal are zinc-carbon batteries and if you break them open, there's a load of carbon falls out. Think they still make them under another name. Glad to hear I'm not the only one who's taken one apart lol.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. doitmyself

    doitmyself Well-Known Member

    Opinion: A view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. (OED or, if you prefer, oed)
    You are entitled to your opinion; I prefer to deal in facts and knowledge. It can wait until a decision is made as to whether the "invention" is granted a patent.
  13. Chuck

    Chuck Active Member

    Here's a fact: An invention doesn't have to work to be granted a patent. Here are the criteria

    Patenting your invention: What you can patent - GOV.UK
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. GH77

    GH77 GSR

    I prefer to answer the original question in the manner that it was asked rather than trying to look clever with dictionary definitions . how about we agree to disagree and keep things light and friendly in the spirit I believe this forum is meant to be ;)
    • Like Like x 1
  15. zzzjim

    zzzjim Well-Known Member

    Some products mimic our common sense ,its similar to a pre existing product ,that spent plenty advertising (Brain-washed).
    Its not slick 50 , waters purpose is to carry heat .
    (Any side trial can be influenced by statistical differences
    in systems )
    If someone is paying you to test a product , you are biased to make it succeed .
    (Your employer may )- be less enthralled Risk-vs-Gain

    Case studies..(Blind scientific ?)
    (Did their systems only need a 36 pound investment ?)
    . What heat loss catagory are some of these buildings ?
    (they look impressive -but also despirate to impress )
    ( I will be re-reading "Matterial" -Link was miss behaving, sussed now)
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
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