Search the forum,

Discuss Have I dropped my self in it here? in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ok but if they didnt test either b4 or after the additional pipework or hadnt noted a drop and i come to issue the cert i suppose i would class that as existing because i havent worked on it. The additional pipework would have been down to them to test and nothing to do with me.

Exactly, if you have just fitted it it's new, anything else is existing, to the letter of the law if you fit a new boiler and cooker on the Monday and for whatever reason I'm back on the Tuesday to move the cooker 400mm to the left, I do a TT and find a 2mb drop I could leave it as it's existing with existing appliances, however this is where real common sense comes in, I COULD leave a drop but I wouldn't, because it's obvious that something is wrong, the reason for the permissable drop is because of microscopic leaks in the gas valves and controls etc, so as they are existing I could leave them, but within 24hrs it's impossible for a wear and tear leak to appear, so I know there is something needing attended to,
 
I beg to differ on what you have said here.
If you wish to say your opinion is that it is better to isolate and check the appliances then that is your opinion and cannot be wrong, however what you have said "ensure you follows correct protocol" is not correct
Read IGE/Up/1b and quote where it says you MUST investigate the permissable drop and prove it isn't on the carcass
If it says you must investigate the source they would not give you a table of permissable drops on existing systems with existing appliances
And on your point of where the HSE would go after an explosion, yes they would come to me as the last person to work on it and when I showed them my paperwork they could not charge me with anything, it isn't about just doing an extra test, although you could end up doing 3/4 tests, it's about the action you need to take when you identify where the leak is, on the carcass you need to rectify or blank it off, but say it's on the cooker, if you can't smell gas can you reconnect the cooker, or say it's on the boiler, it's room sealed, electronic ignition, you ISO the boiler and it's sound, you open the valve and it drops 2mb, you LDF the gas parts after the ISO and can't find the leak, therefor it must be passing through the thermo electric valve therefore it's ID
I know the regs and will not get into trouble by complying with them, or they will need to rewrite them for everyone else and they won't do that and prove themselves wrong, I don't mind people wanting to do everything they can, but if you test the carcass only and then have to cap it have you complied with the reg or overstepped the mark, yes for the best intentions, but I say you are overstepping by isolating the appliances without permission and explaining the ramifications
well said kirk.
 
I'am slightly perplexed not to see my previous post which I wrote. But anyway I understand what your saying Kirkgas but if you don't isolate the appliances then how can you prove that the leak is not on the carcass therefore possibly leaving an I.D. situation. As for overstepping the mark it states that you must inform the responsible person of a gas leak whether it's permissible or not so before isolating I would have already informed the customer and told them that I was carrying out another test to see if the gas leak was permissible or not.
 
I'am slightly perplexed not to see my previous post which I wrote. But anyway I understand what your saying Kirkgas but if you don't isolate the appliances then how can you prove that the leak is not on the carcass therefore possibly leaving an I.D. situation. As for overstepping the mark it states that you must inform the responsible person of a gas leak whether it's permissible or not so before isolating I would have already informed the customer and told them that I was carrying out another test to see if the gas leak was permissible or not.

GGB
OK as long as you talk to the customer before you isolate and they know the risk and agree then that's fine, as for having to isolate to prove its on the existing pipe, you don't have to, the permissible drop table is for existing systems with existing appliances, nowhere in IGE/UP/1b does it say you have to, however once you do and know its on the pipe then you obviously need to act accordingly
Have a read through the doc and you won't find anywhere that you MUST ISO the appliances, whether anyone thinks that's right or wrong is a good debate but not relevant to the actual statement that it's not required, phone Gas Safe Technical and ask the specific question, they might hedge their bets on suggesting what might be good practice etc, but if you push for a specific answer I can't see them saying you MUST ISO the appliances, the wording is vague but I'm clear what I must do
 
I'am slightly perplexed not to see my previous post which I wrote. But anyway I understand what your saying Kirkgas but if you don't isolate the appliances then how can you prove that the leak is not on the carcass therefore possibly leaving an I.D. situation. As for overstepping the mark it states that you must inform the responsible person of a gas leak whether it's permissible or not so before isolating I would have already informed the customer and told them that I was carrying out another test to see if the gas leak was permissible or not.

GGB
I'm not doubting you at all, but where does it say you must inform the responsible person of the permissible drop? I don't recall ever reading that, it's something I always do even using paperwork that just asked for PASS/FAIL, I always put PASS and in the notes what the drop was
 
Good advice given in the posts above, however a tightness test is not mandatory when carrying out an LGSR, it is only recommended!
 
what we have been taught and what i have read from multiple publications..is..

in the event of any pressure drop during the 20mb phase of the tightness test all appliances must then be isolated and the carcas tested in isolation to establish if the carcas is leaking. Wether existing or new - no carcas pressure drops are permissable.

Indeed Only if it is found that the appliances are causing the pressure drop then do we fall back on the specified allowances Re permissable leakage/pressure drop based on meter type etc.

In essence thats what they state

I can post the screenshots from the publications ..

But my viper book doesnt go into as much detail lol
 
Last edited by a moderator:
So there is no permissable drop on old pipe work? You guys are getting me worried! LoL
 
Lol who knows

Confused.com lol
 

Attachments

  • uploadfromtaptalk1394266969500.jpg
    uploadfromtaptalk1394266969500.jpg
    97.1 KB · Views: 42
  • uploadfromtaptalk1394266985005.jpg
    uploadfromtaptalk1394266985005.jpg
    91.2 KB · Views: 39
Last edited by a moderator:
what we have been taught and what i have read from multiple publications..is..

in the event of any pressure drop during the 20mb phase of the tightness test all appliances must then be isolated and the carcas tested in isolation to establish if the carcas is leaking. Wether existing or new - no carcas pressure drops are permissable.

Indeed Only if it is found that the appliances are causing the pressure drop then do we fall back on the specified allowances Re permissable leakage/pressure drop based on meter type etc.

In essence thats what they state

I can post the screenshots from the publications ..

But my viper book doesnt go into as much detail lol

I take it these are training notes ? If so who wrote them, as I've never seen that statement anywhere, ( I will have closer read through the new IGE/UP/1b document)
These notes aren't the current version, as the let by and TT are now a range rather than specific pressure
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If you test pipework only there is no drop allowed whether it's old or new, the permissable drop is only allowed on existing with existing appliances, because they say a microscopic leak can appear over time through wear and tear, so it can't be allowed on a new system
 
There is a spelling mistake in there so not sure about it ;) well i do remember learning that 0 mb is the only thing acceptable when there is no appliances connected or on new appliances.
 
Top one...
Gas installation technology 2011
R.d Treloar is the author.
Hes something to do with the colchester institute ???
evysybuz.jpg

Bottom one is from something else that I dont have to hand.

>>None of that is my work or training notes lol I just highlighted the print for ease on my tablet (I wish :))

But just pointing it out fellows, dont shoot me, ill leave that to the wife when im on the toilet !! LoL
unumusyz.jpg
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It might relate to new installs but I'm sure there's nothing in the IGE/UP/1b about shutting ISO valves on existing systems
 
Thanks kirkgas.
Ill raise this at the college next week with the tutor.
Its annoying when books are wrong or conflicting
The viper book is exactly as you say.
:thumbup:
 
dyzady9u.jpg


This is from IGE/UP/1b
From the section on testing existing systems,
Read point h and the note after it, to me that ends the argument as it says if the drop is less than table 1 figure then it's a pass

EDIT, doesn't look as if it's readable, but on the plus side it means I can't be wrong, if anyone has the doc it's point 5.3.2
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes clearer thanks.
If you get a chance can you please send the page over leaf of the procedure.

Ta muchas :thumbup:
 
I was inspected by Corgi, Council inspectors, Technical guys ...never once during a TT on a existing installation with a permissible drop was I asked to isolate appliances and retest.....smell of gas ?? document and move on. It's bizarre how ppl can interpret the regs in completely different ways.....does this not signal that there's an issue with the sheer number or clarity of the regs ??
 
they dole out this innacurate sh*te and require you to learn it lol.
Not a case of misinterpretation on my behalf. A case or reading plain english thats wrong from the outset.

Thankfull for a place like this where issues can be challenged and discussed openly
 
Last edited by a moderator:
2014-03-09 16.31.03.jpg

this is I think the latest book, got from Steve Willis for my gas course, permissible drop on existing is permissible, nothing about weather its on the carcass or not
 
View attachment 17740

this is I think the latest book, got from Steve Willis for my gas course, permissible drop on existing is permissible, nothing about weather its on the carcass or not

that's why it lists with or without appliances connected :)
without = no appliances or isolated appliances

apprentice or doing your initial assessments?
 
Initial assessments, got a couple of months of my C&G left and to do my portfolio, before i start it, but no work at the moment with my mate so sucks big time
 
Initial assessments, got a couple of months of my C&G left and to do my portfolio, before i start it, but no work at the moment with my mate so sucks big time

Haywards heath i'm guessing?
The kev's, adam, mike, steve, malcolm and the rest will look after you :)
just really read up and don't go into the assment thinking you can wing it, you will be out the door!

Popping down there next week
 
that's why it lists with or without appliances connected :)
without = no appliances or isolated appliances

apprentice or doing your initial assessments?

Without means without, you are surmising it's the same as isolated, nowhere in the IGE document does it say you must isolate the appliances, it says that if an existing system with existing appliances has a drop no more than the specific allowable drop in the table it is a pass, so that means if you have a drop on an existing system it can be left without identifying where it is
 
well BH rather than HH, but yea, thanks never go in trying to wing it, will study and make loads of notes and hope it all sinks in :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Reply to Have I dropped my self in it here? in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

Creating content since 2001. Untold Media.

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock