Grant combi external riello pump problem

[magicno1]

Morning guys

I installed a new Grant 26e external combi just after Christmas. The oil supply was on a temporary supply from an ivt tank which was new and clean. Cross land filter as per installation as always!
after around 2-3 weeks the burner locked out and on inspection it was humming with no motor sound when pressing the lockout button. Press again and it fires up. All settings spot on 11.5 co2 pump pressure 8 bar.
it runs ok for say a day then bang, lockout. Same noise then press again 10 min or so later and off it goes.
so called Grant they send a sub contractor out after the problem occurred every day for weeks and he says the oil pump if gone due to oil contamination. On inspection of the pump filter it was full of black crud so fair enough. My filters are clean!!!! So after my angry customer who incidentally wanted the temp oil supply because of building works and new tank later has had a go at Grant they decide to pay for a pump but he had pay the engineer 75 quid which he did.
All was fine for two hours then lockout again! Customer resets and away we go again. Next day bang, lockout again!
this time I ring Grant up and said I will double check the oil supply for water and the filters and all was good.
i reset the burner checked the set up again and it's been ok up until last week when lockout again.
So Grant this time send their own engineer who whips off the pump and says the filter on the pump has a bit of black crud in and is seized up. Customer takes the pump and turns freely so says how can that be seized, engineers says it's screwed so sticks another new pump on, checks oil for water and all other filters fine! Two hours later whoosh, lockout again man!!!!
customer has reset again this weekend and will be on the phone to Grant tomorrow.

So all you very experienced engineers out there could you possibly shed some of your opinions if you have any short of changing the burner out?

cheers

Chris

 

[hotandcold1]

sorry duplicated post!!

 

[hotandcold1]

Have you checked the capacitor on the motor should by 4 uf + - 5 % (that would also cause buzzing seized pump noise ) would be my first port of call

 

[magicno1]

Thanks
Just need some ammo/ ideas to throw at them really. If they can't sort it then I'll have to.
Not had too many issues at all over the years and fitted hundreds so not very impressed with Grant thus far!

 

[hotandcold1]

Thanks
Just need some ammo/ ideas to throw at them really. If they can't sort it then I'll have to.
Not had too many issues at all over the years and fitted hundreds so not very impressed with Grant thus far!

My company are Grant approved installers and find there really good boilers don't normally get many problems (Reillo burners are same as all manufacturers now use).


If Grant sent out an enginner he should have checked pump pressure and combustion whilst changing pump and i am just presuming this has been eliminated!!!.
For two or three pumps to fail in such a short period of time is unlikely so i would be looking somewhere else.
intermittent Lock out and flame failure are a pain in the :nono:! but can normally be diagnosed with a multi meter.
Not teaching any one to suck eggs but these basic tests might help.
I would first buy a meter with capacitance not always standard ( need to spend a bit more around £50 in maplin but worth it)
Set meter to uf (symbol for capacitance) and remove the two spade wires from the capacitor these are located under the plastic cap and capacitor is bolted to motor Looks like large battery. With NO wires attached test the capacitor you can have a reading from 3.8 to 4.2 can be temperamental so if not within specification needs changing.
(This is often confused with fuel pump because the motor will not spin and just buzz, yet on decoupling the motor from pump the lighter resistance allow motor to spin so people pressume pump faulty. ) Add new pump with less resistance solve problem for short period of time. seen it loads.


Whilst there measure ohms reading of coil on top of fuel pump again with no wires attached Minimum reading above 90 ohms. hold coil in hand to warm up reading should climb slowly
hope this helps and you get it sorted.

 

[magicno1]

Brilliant thank you
I am aware of riello being used across the board and don't have any issues with Grant boilers. I am a Gone installer so endorse them.
I agree these faults are a pain granted- however, some engineers are a little short of some knowledge.
Your advice will be passed on thank you!

 

[Best]

What I can't understand about this is why was there dirt in the oil pumps? Even on a temporary supply no dirt should be allowed to reach oil pump or fully block any filter.
Was the Crossland filter fitted at the oil tank only? That would be the ideal place for a filter, but only if oil line is brand new, or spotless clean inside.
If the temporary oil line was a bit dirty, even after letting oil line flow full bore into a container to flush it, then a Crossland filter just before the burner would save the oil pump. I think the mistake a lot of oil installers and service people do is to fail to flush the oil line. I regularly do this even on a service when replacing an oil pump, or if I think water or dirt may have got into oil pipe from an old open oil sight gauge, or just every new oil service customer. Surprising how much water and dirt lies in neglected oil pipes.
Only usually one of three things will stop the new motor turning, - a filter on fuel line fully blocked causing oil pump to seize, dirt or water in oil pump, or faulty capacitor.
I find if I put my ear close to a burner and try the burner starting from a dead start, keeping doing this maybe 10 times to test, will eventually allow me to hear a split second hesitancy or complete failure of motor to turn, showing capacitor weak

 

[magicno1]

Tank is about 8 feet away and the filter is by the boiler. On the tank is an Atkinson bowl and lever.
Could it be the oil..... I know some suppliers are adding some bio in but really shouldn't make a difference.
Everything is pointing to the cap

 

[hotandcold1]

Tank is about 8 feet away and the filter is by the boiler. On the tank is an Atkinson bowl and lever.
Could it be the oil..... I know some suppliers are adding some bio in but really shouldn't make a difference.
Everything is pointing to the cap

its obviously possible but Reillo redesigned there pumps a few years ago to cope with the addition of biofuel and reduction of sulphur it was destroying the seals would have though the new the pump that was changed marked up as BIO ? unless its been kicking around the van for a long time

 

[Geyser]

The temporary tank could be the problem.
Is it a ibc tank? the square ones in cages.
Is it oil rated or water? bacterial growth especially in a white tank could pass filters and block pump
How is the tank vented? a vacuum could be created as oil level drops