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Discuss Fire Valve requirement in the Oil and Solid Fuel Forum area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

  1. MikeJhn

    MikeJhn Active Member

    I have just been looking at the back page of the Regin service forms, under item 2.4 it says "Change wheel type fire valve for remote acting type" is this a requirement that has been sneaked in and passed me by?
     
  2. Theboilerman

    Theboilerman New Member

    I could be wrong but I thought all appliances should be fitted with a remote firevalve? HRM boilers are usually the only kind of exception as usually the burner is higher than the tank. I tend to remove all wheelhead valves and replace for remote type, even if I can't fit it outside, they're better than the leaky naff wheelhead.
     
  3. MikeJhn

    MikeJhn Active Member

    As far as I can make out, its only if the tank is being moved or a new boiler is being installed that the remote has to be fitted to an existing installation that is 2002 or older and then only if the boiler is inside the building, a bit confusing if the boiler is outside so possibly best to fit one anyway, can't be wrong that way.
     
  4. Best

    Best Trusted Plumber

    As far as I know it always has to have a remote firevalve to outside, on outside and on indoor boilers.
    An existing boiler just being serviced or repaired also requires a remote firevalve, but if the customer refuses to pay for one, then you just tick the box to say no remote valve and also note it (with, remote firevalve recommended).
    The wheelhead firevalve can be left connected as long as a remote firevalve is installed.
     
  5. MikeJhn

    MikeJhn Active Member

    A bit more research on Fire Valves:
    • Building Regulation approved document J 2002
    • Section 5
    Oil supply pipe systems:
    Means of automatic isolation
    5.6 A way of meeting the requirement would be to install fuel pipework which is resistant to the effects of fire and to fit a proprietary fire valve system in accordance with the relevant recommendations in BS5410-1:1997 Sections 8.2 and 8.3.


    Unfortunately 8.2 & 8.3 only concern themselves with the support for steel and plastic tanks, however Clause 9.0 Liquid fuel system from storage tank to burner Sub clause:

    9.3 Fire valve types and installation

    9.3.1 A fire valve system should be fitted so as to cut off the supply of liquid fuel remotely from the heating appliance in the event of an accidental fire occurring in or around the appliance.
    Each fire valve should be tested by the installer in accordance with OFTEC Technical Book 2 [N7] or Technical Book 5 [N8], as applicable, before fitting to check correct operation.

    For appliances installed inside buildings, the liquid fuel supply should be shut off externally to the building.
    For existing liquid fuel supply pipework installations where liquid fuel lines serving internally installed heating appliances are run so as to be built into the structure, the cut off point should be at the point where the line is first exposed internally. This type of layout should not be used for new liquid fuel supply pipework installations.
    9.3.2 For externally located heating appliances, the liquid fuel supply should be cut off externally to the appliance casing. The appliance manufacturer's instructions should be complied with.


    All interesting stuff, well I find it interesting.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  6. Tea-Break

    Tea-Break Member

    Compulsory Remote Acting Fire Valves (KBB Type) have been in as long as I can remember.
    The previous BS5410 1997 included them.
    The valve body should be external to the building or if fitting retrospectively, as close as possible to where the Oil line emerges from the building fabric. Finally ALL external boilers installations should include one (1 metre away from appliance).
    Upon servicing or repair of the appliance you should record (CD11)and make the responsible person aware of the need for said valve.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. MikeJhn

    MikeJhn Active Member

    BS5410 does not specify any longitudinal dimension for the position of the fire valve, except height, unless I'v missed it and you can point it out?

    9.3.9 Where the sensitive element is positioned external to the appliance it should be located at a maximum height of 500 mm above the top of the burner.
     
  8. Tea-Break

    Tea-Break Member

    The 1m is from my last Oftec renewal (2016).
    It was also brought up on a resent course at Worcester-Bosch last December.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Best

    Best Trusted Plumber

    That only refers to the sensor of the remote firevalve. (Usually I clip it to boiler above the burner, often clip is supplied to new boilers though).
    The actual body of the firevalve is to be fitted a metre at least away from an outdoor boiler (outdoor module or one in a built boiler house).
    With an oil boiler fitted inside a house or garage, the firevalve body just needs to be on outer wall and can be literally just directly outside
     
  10. MikeJhn

    MikeJhn Active Member

    All true, but I can't find anything in the legislation that stipulates the valve has to be a certain distance from the boiler.
     
  11. Best

    Best Trusted Plumber

    Oftec regs, which ultimately then are building regs.
     
  12. MikeJhn

    MikeJhn Active Member

    Best, don't want to start an argument, but the Building Regulations Part J are UK Government legislation approved by the Secretary of State, OFTEC recommendations are not, however in Part J under "What is an approved Document" there is a paragraph which says:

    "There is therefore no obligation to adopt any particular solution contained in this Approved Document if you would prefer to meet the relevant requirement in some other way. However, persons intending to carry out building work should always check with their Building Control Body, either the local authority or an approved inspector, that their proposals comply with building regulations."

    Without an approved Government "Code of Practice" I assume industry guidance would be acceptable, but this is a decision that would have to be made by a Judge/Queens Council in a case requiring this decision to be made.

    It would seem that as in most work place legislation if a COP is not available a self appointed body has become the voice of the industry and what they have published has become the work standard adopted/accepted.
     
  13. Tea-Break

    Tea-Break Member

    I think we’re answered the original poster’s question: Remote fire valves have been a ‘requirement’ for some time.
    The posts relating to weather or not it is a legal requirement, have been debated for ages. Most notable between HRM and OFTEC.
    I would guess in a court case, a professional witness would argue that OFTEC are the official
    governing body for the industry.
    However, a discussion/argument for another time and place.
     
  14. MikeJhn

    MikeJhn Active Member

    Yes I think I did answer my own question.
     
  15. Best

    Best Trusted Plumber

    I am not really fully arguing with you tbh.
    Wish I didn’t have to fit a remote firevalve a metre away from an outside boiler because it can be a vulnerable position and not easy to do sometimes on replacement boiler jobs.
    I believe building authorities adopted oftec rules and I guess visa versa.
    The boiler manufacturers instructions would also be part of building control regs.
     
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