Does high gas pressure mean higher bills?

[windmill]

We had a new gasfire installed last summer which never worked correctly. Eventually the manufacturers sent their own gas safe engineer to look at it. He discovered the gas pressure in our house was too high (27.5 mb) and called National Grid who came within an hour. They have now reduced it to 24 mb but when I asked why it was too high the engineer was rather evasive and only said that it was now fixed. We had a new gas meter installed in 2001 and wonder if the pressure has been too high since then. Will our gas bills have been higher because of the high pressure?
There is also a yellow stain on the new white micro marble fireplace that we had installed at the same time as the fire. It is in on the back panel just above the gasfire and extends upwards about 6 inches. The gasfire manufacturers engineer said he thinks it has been caused by the fire getting too hot because of the high pressure. Does anyone have any tips about how to clean it off otherwise we will have to try to get National Grid to pay for a replacement.
Thanks for any advice.

 

[townfanjon]

Without getting in to deep , was it working or standing pressure ?.
working pressure , is way to high , standing pressure its ok

 

[windmill]

Standing pressure. The working pressure was 25.5 prior to National Grid coming and 21.9 afterwards.

 

[firemant]

Standing pressure is pretty much irrelevant this scenario.
NG will never compensate you for high WP, as, here, they have a perfect get out card. I am disinclined to elaborate further here.

Did the same person supply AND fit the fire and fireplace?

Hav

 

[Last Plumber]

It is possible that using your gas fire on full rate with a high working pressure could result in it using more gas than it should as the appliance is most likely unregulated.

If it was around 25 at the meter I can't honestly see you noticing on your gas bill !

I wouldn't expect them to compensate you !

I wouldn't expect the installer to either to be honest.

It would have been tested at commissioning stage and most likely changed at some point after that.

You are only talking of a slight increase for a short amount of time.
( more than likely).

 

[windmill]

Thanks for the replies.
The same installer fitted the fire and fireplace. The retailer where we bought them both gave us the installers name though they no longer employ him but haven't told us why.
After NG had reduced the pressure they asked us to put the boiler and fire on and said the working pressure all on was 19.6 mb but all our gas appliances weren't on. We didn't have the cooker or 2nd gasfire on (and I often use the cooker and 2 or 3 hobs together). If we have all the gas appliances on which we often do, will the reduced pressure affect their performance? Before any of this I noticed that the oven and hobs took far longer to cook things when the boiler or fire were on as well and now the pressure is less.
Thanks.

 

[Atouchofgas]

Sounds like you need to get a gas safe engineer in to test your whole installation and check the fireplace has been correctly installed. If you post your location maybe one of the guys on the forum will be close by to help

 

[firemant]

If having the fire on reduces the flames on the cooker, then the pipework is undersized. Ideally you should have everything checked by a RGI:

Find or check a Gas Safe registered business - Find or check a Gas Safe registered engineer in your area who can fit, fix and service your gas appliances.

Gas fires are notorious for being fitted badly, That is not the fault of the fire, but of inexperienced installers over reaching. it fires, Use the same site to check your installers credentials - not all are licenced to fit fires,

Post some pics of the fireplace

 

[windmill]

I'm in Sale, Greater Manchester.
Here are 2 pics of fireplace and fire (with trim etc removed) although the stain hasn't come out very well.

 

[kris]

Hi windmill , like previously said the pressure at the meter is irrelevant because the fire is set to use a certain amount of gas at a certain pressure so the incoming pressure really doesn't affect the usage amount but still 27mbar is only slightly above the usual 24 but it's really really low pressure as mbar is milli bar which is a thousandth of a bar , if that makes any sense to you ,

 

[mache]

As Kris said, the before and after pressure difference in negligible really 3mbar is only 0.0435 psi if bars are not your thing

 

[Dan]

This thread got deep quick!

 

[firemant]

That is, I believe, a Paragon/Matchless High Efficiency fire. Is the back panel marble or a composite material? Paragon do not recommend that fire on composite materials due to the high temperatures. Alternatively, it COULD be "spillage". You may wish to contact Paragon tech to ask about their recommendations.

Have you spoken to the installer. Have you a CO alarm? It needs testing for spillage IMO.

 

[windmill]

You're right!
It is a Matchless HE fire with a balanced flue, made by Charlton and Jenrick. When the C&J engineer came he installed a replacement fire because he said there was a fault with the original. Apparently there is a part on top of the fire behind the black lift-up flap, that was flexing up when the fire was on allowing fumes to escape into the room. The replacement fire seems to be working ok and there is no longer a smell of fumes.
When I pointed out the yellow stain he didn't say anything about not using a composite fireplace with this fire. He said the high gas pressure would have made the fire get hotter than it should and that is what has probably affected the fireplace. I'm going to ring C&J to ask them more about this. Also there is rust on the back of the brass trim. Although the trim doesn't actually touch the fireplace I wonder if this could be something to do with the stain.
What do you mean "spillage"?
I have rung the installer several times and left messages but he never rings back.
We do have a CO alarm and have put it near the fire.

 

[kris]

Spillage is where fumes or combustion ( burnt gas ) escape back / spill back in to the room instaed of up or out the chimney,

 

[kris]

Dont suppose you know the input kw of the fire , ie 6kw , is there any purpose made air ventilation for the fire ? these are things that your engineer has / shouldve checked,

 

[windmill]

Sorry I don't know the input kw of the fire but there is ventilation, in and out, through the flue pipe.

 

[Chalked]

Ballanced flue mate.

 

[firemant]

You're right!
It is a Matchless HE fire with a balanced flue, made by Charlton and Jenrick. When the C&J engineer came he installed a replacement fire because he said there was a fault with the original. Apparently there is a part on top of the fire behind the black lift-up flap, that was flexing up when the fire was on allowing fumes to escape into the room. The replacement fire seems to be working ok and there is no longer a smell of fumes.
When I pointed out the yellow stain he didn't say anything about not using a composite fireplace with this fire. He said the high gas pressure would have made the fire get hotter than it should and that is what has probably affected the fireplace. I'm going to ring C&J to ask them more about this. Also there is rust on the back of the brass trim. Although the trim doesn't actually touch the fireplace I wonder if this could be something to do with the stain.
What do you mean "spillage"?
I have rung the installer several times and left messages but he never rings back.
We do have a CO alarm and have put it near the fire.

The panel is probably beyond saving, if the stains are "absorbed". C&J will be thanking their lucky stars that the pressure was set too high, as they can try to use it as a get out. In truth, IMO, the increase rate is NOT the issue. They have admitted their was a fault on the fire, and they should stand by their product. Having said that, you have no contract with the manufacturer, so legally your rout is via the retailer. They will kick and scream, but they sold it. They also introduced the installer. A lot of premises have slightly wrong gas pressures, and appliances should be designed to work safely with a small increase in load.
The rust could be a result of the spillage, as a Product of Combustion is water vapour, or it could have been badly stored - was the marks DEFINITELY not present on installation?
CO Alarm: It should not be "near" the fire! It shoud be 1-3 metres away at high level, avoiding draughts etc. Check the siting instructions

Dont suppose you know the input kw of the fire , ie 6kw , is there any purpose made air ventilation for the fire ? these are things that your engineer has / shouldve checked,

It does not need vent, subject to the obvious. Input IIRC is about 5Kw/

Ballanced flue mate.

No, its not, It is open flue with glass front


EDIT: Apologies to Chalked - I misread a response. The OP says it is BF

 

[Harvest Fields]

If it is open flue. Have you got a cowl fitted on top of the chimney stack m, went to one of these last year and it passed every test. Went this year and failed flue flow test. And the chimney had a jack daws nest in it. Chimney sweep did a great job though. Cowl now been fitted and all is good.

 

[Last Plumber]

To WINDMILL.
You say it's a matchless HE balanced flue.
Just for clarity, is that correct?

 

[windmill]

Yes. It's a Matchless balanced flue with a glass front.
I didn't look at the trim before it was fitted so don't know if the rust was there beforehand.

 

[firemant]

I assumed the "black lift-up flap" was the flue spigot. I now assume it us the shield that fit a in front of and above the glass. The only thing that can flex there is the front of the heat exchanger. There is a thin gasket so if the panel flexes back I suppose it could create a gap This being the case then the slight increase in input pressure would not make a difference

 

[windmill]

Have taken 2 more pics. The first one shows the black flap across the middle of the photo (it can also be removed). The 2nd pic shows the black flap lifted up allowing you to see on to the top of the fire box. It is that bit you can see including the white foam-like strip that the engineer said was flexing up when the fire was on. I don't know what it's called.

 

[Sedgy40]

We had a new gasfire installed last summer which never worked correctly. Eventually the manufacturers sent their own gas safe engineer to look at it. He discovered the gas pressure in our house was too high (27.5 mb) and called National Grid who came within an hour. They have now reduced it to 24 mb but when I asked why it was too high the engineer was rather evasive and only said that it was now fixed. We had a new gas meter installed in 2001 and wonder if the pressure has been too high since then. Will our gas bills have been higher because of the high pressure?
There is also a yellow stain on the new white micro marble fireplace that we had installed at the same time as the fire. It is in on the back panel just above the gasfire and extends upwards about 6 inches. The gasfire manufacturers engineer said he thinks it has been caused by the fire getting too hot because of the high pressure. Does anyone have any tips about how to clean it off otherwise we will have to try to get National Grid to pay for a replacement.
Thanks for any advice.

The installer that fitted your fire initially, would have done a pressure test surely?

 

[firemant]

Personally, I would be complaining to the retailer, for a new panel, as it is he with whom you have the contract. He may then pursue the C&J, but that is up to him.

 

[oilmark]

Apart from the safety issues the OP would have benefited from buying gas at a higher gas pressure as the meter measures cubic metres of gas therefore more energy was contained in each unit measured.?