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marshr02

Dear CORGI Guys

Looking for advice. I want to install my own boiler as much as possible without fouling CORGI rules & get a CORGI bloke in to connect gas, test & turn on.

My question is can I adopt the following approach:
1) Turn off the gas at the meter
2) Disconnect old boiler, including disconnecting the gas pipe to appliance
3) Tidy up wall & plaster etc, fit new boiler (less gas)
4) Get CORGI bloke in to check flue location, ventilation, and physically connect gas supply then test ,purge etc & turn on & give me the relevant paperwork

Any comments appreciated. I enjoy DIY etc and have an engineering degree - it's not because I'm trying to save money...
 
1 - yes
2 - no
3 - no
yes

flue gas hanging boiler all come under corgi.
best speak to him some will some wont
if you hang the boiler he can't then check its 100% secured to the wall.
and the end of the day its his name on the paperwork.

personally i won't do that as for how long it takes me to fit a boiler bracket, flue etc i'd rather do it knowing it will stay for a at least 10 yrs.
 
1) Yes
2) No
3) No
4) No

[DLMURL]http://www.trustcorgi.com/techlib/Technical%20Bulletins/TB%20214%20Gas%20Work.pdf[/DLMURL]
 
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Thanks for the prompt replys.

I didn't realise even fitting the boiler to the wall was CORGI covered! I thought all the wet bits, and the physical bits could be done by anyone. Incidentally in the past I've often fixed the wet parts of my combi - diverter valve, and pump replacements - is fixing wet parts of an existing installation covered by CORGI?

Is there a different CORGI form/paperwork for the installation of a gas appliance as opposed to the inspection of an existing appliance? Can an installation of unknown origin be inspected and hence deemed safe via an inspection rather than installation certificate - this way the tester is not being asked to sign off someone elses work as their own (with assumed liability)....such as their screwing the boiler to the wall.

Either way I'm going to look for a CORGI person to remove and install my new boiler. As I have already bought my new Boiler, would I be right in suspecting most CORGI guys would prefer to supply & fit a boiler...

Anyone know of a good CORGI person in the Brighton Area?

Again thanks for the info. I'll promise to faithfully pass on this info to my colleagues at work - an Engineering Dept were everyone is in to everything DIY..

Cheers folks..
 
Oddly HSE rules only state that in order to work on gas you have to be competent. For third party work this means CORGI registration and all that this entails. However you are allowed to work on your own gas at home. One presumes then that 'competent' in this case means 'it didn't go BANG when I fired it up'. In practice though you need to know how to deal with your gas supply before working on it (and there is already a serious error in your original missive), you need to know rules and theory for pipework (gas and water), what is and what isn't and appropriate gas fitting, and how to certify the installation as safe at the end. You also have to be good with electrics, and have knowledge of Part L of building regs. Almost everything else is in the installation instructions for the appliance.

However: you then have the problem of the legal requirement to notify your local building control of the installation, and without being part of the relevant competent persons schemes you could find that this is more expensive than having a professional job done in the first place. If you ignore this part you may well find it costs you dear if a) you are found out or b) you ever want to sell the house.
 
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Thanks for the info Graham..

I know is sounds nerdy but I really like learning new stuff, including gas theory; pipe sizing, pressure drop under load, tightness tests etc. In an ideal world I would love to pay a CORGI member to walk me through the steps where possible, and do the bits that I can't - even if it means it costs more!

As a result of Part P, I sat my electrical C&G exams 2381 & 2391. This again is because I love learning - and I want to prove that with an electrical engineering degree & Chartered Electrical Engineer status I am competant. I have all the test gear, in calibration. Ironically I'm still not Part P registered because it's uneconomic to join ECA, Napit, etc for the odd work on my own home. Building Control are in a tizz regarding Part P, and presumably CORGI/GAS SAFE REGISTER - they don't feel competant to comment and fall back on requiring user to be on a registered competant person scheme. I would be happy to pay the extra costs of Building Control approval - but it doesn't seem an option in Brighton.

I'm aware in depth of Part L, due to associated building work. On my system I need to install TRVs in the sleeping area.

To summarise - I'm not trying to save costs (within reason) or scrimp on regs. I would love to pay someone on daywork, to sit in the corner with a cup of tea, tell me what to do and effectively supervise the safe installation - including taking responsibility for the installation as if they installed it - as required for CORGI registration docs & Benchmark...

Cheers for the useful posts...Richard
 
Well some plumbers do offer this sort of service from time to time so good luck in finding one.
 
If you're certified and it hasn't expired(meaning you are currently corgi registered then you're 'competent') Doesn't matter what degree you have or how many books you have read or years doing DIY. Even if you're a NASA rocket scientist but you're not corgi registered then you're not 'competent' to do gas work in the uk. Not even in your own home. You could cause property damage to neighbours/blow them up or kill visitors with CO for example.
 
I don't agree. CORGI is a national register of approved gas workers, proven & inspected to perform to certain standards, hence proved competant. BUT the H&S executive operate at a higher level of law in this area - their definition of competant is satified by being a CORGI member but not exclusively.

Same applies for Part P Electrical - work must be done by a competant person (H&S Executive definition). Being a member of an approved list (ECA, NAPIT, NICEIC) is the main method of demonstrating competance BUT not the only one.

Obviously as soon as you start doing work for personal gain then others areas of the law come into play, and things get more restrictive. In this scenario only CORGI registered gas workers are allowed to work on gas appliances (note others may still be competant, but are not allowed)

Nothing wrong with reading books by the way :)
 
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Soapy's position is the one all those of us who deal with gas and see some of the horrors would like to have as the legal position, but at the moment this is not the case. Yes, it can be argued that it would be better for our revenues, but the fact is that there are practices we are examined on, that have been established over the years, quite probably by fitters making mistakes, and that are there to ensure gas safety as far as possible. One of these is that you have to isolate the meter before working on the gas installation, and as far as I am aware the DIYer is not allowed to touch the meter. So in this respect those doing DIY are in a bit of a catch 22.
 
Ok, what other way is there of proving competence in the gas industry?

if you can't prove you are competent then you're not competent and breaking the law if you attempt anything that you are not allowed to do.

Even if you were competent 5 years ago but it expired, that means you are not competent now and therefore not allowed to do gas work.

Also - Why would there be a different law for working in your own house or working for money.

Is it better to kill people in your own house rather than killing paying people or something? i don't get this thing about it supposedly being ok do meddle with gas safety in your own house....you could blow up the neighbours too and kill your family and any visitors to your house with CO. It's not a case that you can do what you want inyour own house as things can affect other people too and DIYers aren't aware of things tha happen in our industry and aren't privy to certain information.Som incidents briefed out to us even surprised me yet they are true and people did die.
 
See my previous posts Soapy. There is a subtle difference between competance and being on the CORGI register. I agree with you in principle, but I am trying to point out that competance exists beyond being a CORGI member.

As GrahamP pointed out the scenario you paint is desired but not currently the case.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe in DIY gas work. I also don't believe in anyone who dares to ask intelligent questions being shot down in flames, because they aren't in the 'in-crowd'. (not saying this is what you are doing....)
 
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Also - Why would there be a different law for working in your own house or working for money.

I don't know. Just like I don't know why some people get away with a fine instead of a lengthy jail term for killing some kid's mother by driving badly. All I am stating is the current law. I didn't make it up. It seems to me that the current interpretation is "Did it go BANG after I did the gas work? No? Then I must be competent". I don't think it is any more of a sane test than you do.
 
Corgi are emplyed by the HSE to assist them keep the industry safe, all the legislation and new rules are authorised by the HSE.
 
Given my experiences and what I have read about the incompetency of HSE over the years, I rest my case.
 
just been thinking about the question of who can work on a boiler on most sites a corgi registered person fits the boiler and along comes an electrician to do the wiring how can this be legal ? the electrician isnt corgi registered so how is he alowed to work on a gas appliance?
going one step further its now wired and plumbed in so who turns it on the electrican cant as he isnt qualified to but the again the corgi guy isnt qualified to turn on the powersupply ?
catch22?

just reading the latest gas installer article about the rouge traders program and i quote
"it is corgis view that any activity that could affect the gas tightnes of an instalation or the process of combustion of a commisioned gas appliance is deemed as gas work and needs to be dealt with by a corgi registered installer"
so from that ity would seem that any one is free to work on installing the new boiler up until the point where the gas is supplied to it when it would be commision by a CRE
GEE THANKS CORGI IM SO GLAD I PAY YOU
 
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Thanks Steve, fresh information. The gas installer quote you offer seems common sense to me. Interestingly though the CORGI installation certificate doesn't offer this cut down approach i.e. the CORGI person has to sign off the entire installation as their own work, including presumably the electrical connection? and I can understand therefore they have to have done the entire installation.

Clearly there are some grey areas still.

In the example you quote of being on site, I would suggest the electrician is responsible for the fixed installation i.e. the switched fused connection unit. The CORGI person connects the flex lead into this connection unit - this electrical work in not covered by Part P for dwellings, as it is deemed not complex. The routing of mains cables for thermostats etc I imagine is a different issue, and likely to be Part P.

During routine electrical 'periodic inspection reports' the testing would not include appliance, and in this case test for safety up to the fused connection unit.
 
can we clear something up.
THE RULES DONT BELONG TO CORGI
we have to follow the gas regulations. they are not corgi regulations.
corgi is a business, out there to earn money, and make lots of decent plumbers blood boil.
i am corgi registered and hate them for it. god bless the next guys.
these are not corgi rules, as everybody hopefully will find out in the next few months
 
hi guys, new to this forum. i am a plummer looking into getting gas safe regestered, although i have experiance in domestic plumming i have none in gas. ive been talking to some training providers in order for me to do my ACS a few have offered me 15 days training for ÂŁ1800, then i fill in all the nesesary portfolio req and go on to do the 5 day assesments for ÂŁ1100. is this the norm or is there any advice any one can give to me, thanks.
 
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