debate

[hammers4spanner]

having a spat with a mechanical engineer (knobbers)

basically their is a main boiler house which is fed by two inch iron off a commercial gas meter ,
off that commercial gas meter is a two inch tee that reducers down to inch copper with a aecv then sub meter then aecv.
this inch copper pipe shoots off to feed a system boiler

our argument is that i say its still one system as it tee's off from the main commercial meter regardless of aecv and sub meter

he says that its two systems because of aecv and sub meter

i am the gsr he is hnd/hnc ex gas man mechy engineer annoying noob

who is right

 

[lame plumber]

I would agree with him, ******** or not Its why you have sub meters means you can run several boilers off one feed ie flats, would you call 4 flats off one large meter with their own sub meters one system?

 

[hammers4spanner]

arnt sub meters classed as pipework tho?

 

[lame plumber]

your not getting the answer you want are you hammers

 

[hammers4spanner]

reason i ask i sure i phoned gsr tech help regarding this few years ago and they said its classed as pipework

its popped up again this week and mr engineer says its not and is adamant about it to the point i felt like chinning him lol

 

[lame plumber]

coooooeeee Croppie?

 

[Dotty]

Much as I hate saying it Hammy, the knob's right.

 

[lame plumber]

I'm getting an inference here, that means a lettings agent may get thumped tomorrow

 

[hammers4spanner]

Dam had right debate today regarding this

I was saying it's one system as originally had just one meter now it has had sub meter in feeding system boiler.
So if a gsr engineer done a tt on the commercial meter would they be classed as responsible person for whole system including sub meter

 

[lame plumber]

better say sorry on Monday

 

[Dotty]

Dam had right debate today regarding this

I was saying it's one system as originally had just one meter now it has had sub meter in feeding system boiler.
So if a gsr engineer done a tt on the commercial meter would they be classed as responsible person for whole system including sub meter

yep...

 

[Scott_D]

Anything downstream of the valve

 

[lame plumber]

 

[Ermintrude]

Done the same in kitchens. Test point and aecv = domestic engineer free to roam! Gas safe will confirm. Although appliance MUST be room sealed to remain an entity that can bee deemed to not I react with local non domestic plant.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

I would agree with him, ******** or not Its why you have sub meters means you can run several boilers off one feed ie flats, would you call 4 flats off one large meter with their own sub meters one system?

I would agree with lame on this

 

[SafeGasInstall]

Even if there was not sub meter but aecv with test points then it all gets separated

 

[hammers4spanner]

Chief croppie has sorted this via pm cheers big man

 

[Dotty]

No worries Jim. Always a pleasure.

 

[kirkgas]

Dam had right debate today regarding this

I was saying it's one system as originally had just one meter now it has had sub meter in feeding system boiler.
So if a gsr engineer done a tt on the commercial meter would they be classed as responsible person for whole system including sub meter

If the commercial guy tested from the commercial meter and included everything else in the test then yes he would be responsible, as a domestic guy I can work from the valved supply through the smaller leg, I'm not actually sure having a sub meter means that much, after all the meter is only a means of Measuring a supply for billing purposes it doesn't really effect the work/testing getting done

 

[AlexGas]

Primary meter - meter nearest to and downstream of a service pipe for ascertaining the volume of gas supplied through that pipe by a gas supplier.

Secondary meter - meter, other than a primary meter, for ascertaining the quantity of gas provided by a person for use by another person.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Much as I hate saying it Hammy, the knob's right.

who lame?:smilielol5:

 

[Ermintrude]

Croppie obviously

 

[Dotty]

who lame?:smilielol5:

I thought I got away with that one.....

 

[lame plumber]

I thought I got away with that one.....

see post 8 you b'stard

 

[Dotty]

see post 8 you b'stard

Ooooooooo! Get her!

 

[Millsy 82]

If the commercial guy tested from the commercial meter and included everything else in the test then yes he would be responsible, as a domestic guy I can work from the valved supply through the smaller leg, I'm not actually sure having a sub meter means that much, after all the meter is only a means of Measuring a supply for billing purposes it doesn't really effect the work/testing getting done

I may of read this completely wrong so please forgive me if I have.

Are you saying if I went to a commercial install and they wanted something doing on a 28mm leg which has an Isolation and test point on it I can work on it? I was always lead to believe that you would need a commercial engineer to test the rest of the gas carcass.

 

[kirkgas]

I may of read this completely wrong so please forgive me if I have.

Are you saying if I went to a commercial install and they wanted something doing on a 28mm leg which has an Isolation and test point on it I can work on it? I was always lead to believe that you would need a commercial engineer to test the rest of the gas carcass.

You can work on an installation with 35mm copper as long as the total IV of the valved section your are working doesn't exceed 0.035m3 when you are finished

 

[Master Plumber]

I don't know what yourb reason is for raising this issue but it is one that has caused much debate within the industry. In legal terms because the source of the gas supply is unique (i.e the commercial meter) it should and I repeat should be considered one system. The presence of a sub meter and AECV valves only constitute a form of secondary control and not the creation of a seperate system since the designer would have to calculate that the commercial meter was capable of supplying a quantity of gas sufficient to run both the appliances in the main boiler house area and the isolated system boiler. It should also be remembered that even though the system boiler is away on its own if it is within a commercial premise it will need to comply with DSEAR, the pressure products directive, hazardous area regulations and other requirements of a commercial installation. For it to be a seperate system it would need to obtain its gas supply from before the commercial meter and not after it and I think that you will find this to be the case if you care to examine the standards and statutory requirements.

As for whether this is or is not the answer you were looking for is really immaterial what matters is that when the man in the curly wig is called upon to adjudicate in these matters he will defer to what is in his opinion an expert body, which in this case would probably be the Institution of Gas Engineers and Managers since Gas Safe Register is merely the keeper of the register whist it is IGEM and EU Skills who are the standard writers and managers.