Changing the MCS

[unguided1]

So many people that I speak to around the country are complaining about the MCS being too expensive for one man bands and small companies and have no idea what to do about. There have been many people on this forum asking and talking about the MCS, and saying its to expensive, especially me, well now is the time to stop whineing about it and get off our backsides and do something to claim our trade back that is rightfully ours, the trade that we have worked hard for, and trained hard for all our lives.


Mickw has a proven track record for getting something done when he got the industry and the government to adopt the boiler scrapage scheme. How many of you would have gone under with out that boost to our industry, I know I made money out of it.

He has now agreed to be our industry voice to get something done about the ridiculous MCS that has been proven to be a complete nonsense since its invention and is holding back many a good business because of its physical cost and office mentality, all well and good if your a trained office chimp, well I for one am not, I have been a heating engineer since 1979 I was trained on solid fuel, oil and gas, even more importantly I was also trained to design and install heating systems, what are the qualifications worth that I attained today absolutely nothing, the fact that I am Gas Safe registered means that I can install an appliance on to any system wether safe or dangerous doesnt matter as the only thing that is important is the appliance and right now it is the same for MCS. So I say it is time that we tell the industry and the government that they have got it wrong and it is high time that things changed for the better with more focus on the engineering of the whole system instead of turning us engineers into puppet like office chimps, If they want a QMS and I am doing something I dont want then I want to be paid for it, but why should I pass my costs on to my customer.


So Mickw has got this Blog and he is one voice, one voice will never be heard without support so back him in his fight to help the little man because without support we will lose our industry to a never ending pile of paperwork beurocrats extortionate charges with more hidden charges regulations and fine print, and that is not the trade I signed up for Trade Only: Over-regulation is the Biggest Barrier to Renewable take-up

 

[ecowarm]

I feel exactly the same, I started my apprenticeship in 1978 and I agree about having to re-learn what we already have qualifications in........ City and Guilds actually meant something then.

 

[SimonG]

It'll be like trying to get the brown stuff to flow uphill, surprising how many times you see piework trying to do just that!

Anyway count me in, I love a challenge.

 

[dontknowitall]

I'm happy to help if I'm told what to do and how I can help.

There's something wrong where the "bigwigs" are on at the public about global warming but not helping the little wigs (earwigs?) try to do something about it without having to pay enormous sums of money on paperwork.

Same is happening with the water shortage this year. Have any of you plumbers received ANYTHING on advising customers? Has the public been told not to wash cars?* Has industry started to save water?

Nothing will happen until (temporary) legislation is in place to lower our consumption.


* I'm thinking of enscribing my van with "Dirty van - Saving water".

 

[unguided1]

the Link to mickw blog is at the bottom of my post, let your fingers be your voice give him the support so that he can assist us to claim our trade back as our own, Be brave whats the worst that could happen!!!!!!!!!!!.............. well OK we could end up drinking Dr Pepper.........Uuuuuurgh

 

[glasgow guy]

couldn't agree more count me in

 

[Gray0689]

I love dr pepper lol

 

[CES]

Dr Pepper.. didn't he poison those folk way back... erm, nope sorry, that was Crippen...:dunce2:

 

[SimonG]

Dr Pepper is ok, its the root beer I can't stand. The youngest loves it, smells like germolene.

 

[GQuigley67]

guess that answers our question about how many gas engineers there are...120,000 lol

but how to do we show our support ?

 

[eaton]

Thing is I'm a 1 man band and got my assessment on 20july so I'd be gutted if I went through all this to suddenly find there was an easy way out. Personally I've adopted my business too it and have incorporated a few bits. Don't get me wrong it's still ott but if it protects us from cowboys unlike gas safe I'm all for it, likeI said I've got used to it so it's not impossible it's about making your business work for you

 

[unguided1]

guess that answers our question about how many gas engineers there are...120,000 lol

but how to do we show our support ?

Its a blog so to show your support say how you feel on it whether for or against,you will be amazed at the sort of people who read these things, the time for action is now so make your voice heard

 

[unguided1]

Thing is I'm a 1 man band and got my assessment on 20july so I'd be gutted if I went through all this to suddenly find there was an easy way out. Personally I've adopted my business too it and have incorporated a few bits. Don't get me wrong it's still ott but if it protects us from cowboys unlike gas safe I'm all for it, likeI said I've got used to it so it's not impossible it's about making your business work for you

Hi Eaton
I would say this, you now have a business model for your business that you can be proud of and works for you and in the long term it will enhance your business. The MCS does not stop the cowboys despite all the claims being made, as I have stated I have met DIYers doing a better job than an MCS accredited engineers, Also the MCS only covers the appliance and does not encompass the whole heating system which to my mind is like some teenage muppet putting a V12 engine into an Austin Allegro arguably the worst car ever built.
I feel that it is not just the MCS that needs changing but the whole industry including how we train new engineers. Currently to be a proffesional costs us thousands of pounds a year, those costs we have to factor into every job we do, so our overheads are a lot higher than the cowboys.

 

[CES]

I totally agree, the MCS doesn't "prevent" anything, it promotes and helps create a Quality business model which long term may improve the competitive edge of a business. It is basically a badge to prove that you have set up a working business model based on a QMS and the "technical" side of assessment is supposed to prove that you are working to the business model. It doesnt assess whether your installations are quality, only your business procedures. This is only too evident that we now have double glazing firms offering solar PV and solar thermal installations. How can a business which predominately installs windows suddenly be expert at installing renewable technologies? It takes years of experience and unless they have all acquired heating/electrical businesses then I can only assume they are subcontracting the work, which in my view doesn't prevent cowboys, as the installers are effectively by-passing the MCS.
I'm not detracting from businesses who are MCS,I myself am in the process purely to try and get some of the work which is being directed away from me.

 

[MickW]

Thanks for all the support.

As unguided1 said, the best way that you can show your support right now is to add a comment to the blog (Comment box at the bottom)

It only takes a minute and the more comments that are there the better.

I have to say, that I admire the guys that are going for accreditation now. It is tough, expensive and totally over the top to attain accreditation and a large ongoing overhead, but it is important that small businesses don't let the big boys have it all their own way when the grants and incentives eventually get here.

Please leave your comment, for or against, on the blog and let's see if we can make a difference!

 

[MickW]

Thing is I'm a 1 man band and got my assessment on 20july so I'd be gutted if I went through all this to suddenly find there was an easy way out. Personally I've adopted my business too it and have incorporated a few bits. Don't get me wrong it's still ott but if it protects us from cowboys unlike gas safe I'm all for it, likeI said I've got used to it so it's not impossible it's about making your business work for you

I understand how you feel, Eaton, and I wish you luck with your assessments - if you get it you will at least have a head start and a chance to stop the big boys getting it all!!

 

[fraser]

Ive looked into it before and it was the paperwork and the many different prices being quoted thats put me off so lets hope it changes and gives smaller firms more of a chance

 

[unguided1]

So guys are you happy with the industry as it is, where organisations such as The MCS are taking the focus away from the engineering side of your business and making you become part of the british governments obsession with beurocracy or would you prefer to go back to less beurocracy and more focus on what you have trained to do???

I have just looked at mickw's blog and since I posted on there, there has only been 5 other posters, my upmost thanks to those guys who made the effort, on my original post I have recieved thirteen thanks, so I can only assume that you are in support of the campaign if so I would rather you posted on the blog than gave me your thanks.


The whole point of the campaign is to save your industry and if you guys do not participate you will eventualy loose the right to complain about the state of the industry in the future because you sat back and didnt participate when you had the chance, your chance is now to make a difference please do not let this golden oppertunity to pass you by, so lend your support and let your voices of dissatisfacation be heard.

It is my honest belief that the MCS qms is a current experiment to supposedly improve the industry and as I have said before, you will all pig and moan when the likes of Gas Safe Oftec and Heatas take up this QMS idea.

I remeber when it became mandatory to be corgi registerd, there was no real internet then and all the old guys in the industry bitched and moaned about having to do more trainning and spend money becoming registerd those close to retirement didnt bother and I am talking about really experianced heating guys who would be retiring in the next 10 to 15 years being forced to stop installing boilers and just do cylinder changes and fit bathroom suites and I am talking about the sort of guys who have forgotten more than I have ever learned, overnight because of beurocracy they went from experianced heating engineers to little more than bathroom fitters how humiliating was that and you had guys half their age poorly trained having done 2 week courses trying tell them their jobs

Just had a thought, maybe the MODS can do a poll or tell me how I can set one up to really gauge if there is support for the MCS or not because I feel there is not much real support from it from the installers its aimed at only support from the big industry movers

 

[ecowarm]

We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of suffering. You ask, what is our policy? I will say: It is to wage war, by sea, land, and air, with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us; to wage war against a monstrous tyranny never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: It is victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be. Winston Churchill June 4 1940.

 

[unguided1]

We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of suffering. You ask, what is our policy? I will say: It is to wage war, by sea, land, and air, with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us; to wage war against a monstrous tyranny never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: It is victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be. Winston Churchill June 4 1940.

Praise the lord and pass the ammunition, Frank Loesser

Cheers Eco

 

[MickW]

Yes, come on guys, it only takes a couple of minutes - please!

 

[fuzzy]

talking of bureaucracy does this scheme improve the industry or add more layers of unnecessary checks? Its in addition to mcs

http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/renewable-energy/22144-anyone-member.html

 

[ecowarm]

I won't do any more Winston Churchill Quotes I will just say I take up my task with buoyancy and hope. I feel sure that our cause will not be suffered to fail among men. At this time I feel entitled to claim the aid of all, and I say, "come then, let us go forward together with our united strength."

 

[fuzzy]

i with you ecowarm, im with you mate

not sure what your point is but ill follow

 

[fuzzy]

tbh, if this keeps out the cowboys and improves the skills of the installers and know how of the business case then it is for the better

 

[dontknowitall]

Just added my tuppence worth ...

 

[MickW]

Just added my tuppence worth ...

and very good it was too, thank you!

 

[SimonG]

Can we link this post and the others that have 'discussed' the issue with the blog?

 

[MickW]

Can we link this post and the others that have 'discussed' the issue with the blog?

That's a really good idea, Simon, but I don't think I can, because you can only read a very limited amount of posts unless you are a member and logged in!

Thanks for your comment, by the way, it was excellent!

 

[MickW]

Thanks, Ian, for your comment including the Winston Churchill quote as well :wink:

 

[MickW]

There are some really good comments on the blog now, but I'd love to see a few more if you get a chance!

Trade Only: Over-regulation is the Biggest Barrier to Renewable take-up

 

[fuzzy]

the blog suggests this forces people to use larger companies as they are the ones more likely to be able to satisfy the mcs scheme. Is that a bad thing?

 

[unguided1]

Hi guys

I have tried to see if we can get some support off the electricians forum Are you happy with the cost of MCS registration
So I hope the sparkys and PV guys will be interested in helping

 

[unguided1]

the blog suggests this forces people to use larger companies as they are the ones more likely to be able to satisfy the mcs scheme. Is that a bad thing?

No its not a bad thing if you own a big company, but I dont and it is not cost effective for me to be MCS accredited

 

[fuzzy]

No its not a bad thing if you own a big company, but I dont and it is not cost effective for me to be MCS accredited

well would it be a bad thing for all medium/large/recognised companies to get the work and install it then register it? they can then ensure standards are high. could always use smaller companies to sub contract too