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Discuss BS5440-1 preventing gas fire upgrade.. Help!! in the Gas Safe Register Forum - Public Forum area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

  1. Jay Human

    Jay Human New Member

    Hi - I would like to replace our existing Gas Fire, which is the original appliance fitted from new 20 years ago. The issue is that Gas Safe regulations have changed since and mean that our property (and many others could not be constructed this way!).

    Our gas fire (a balanced flue) vents from our wall that forms the boundary, and lies in our neighbours property. The area it vents to is not an access point it's a narrow strip of land between the properties and lies entirely within their garden. Our vent is at 60cm and is directly facing their vent. Neither their or our property has a window or door on those walls.

    Gas Safe (utterly unhelpful) say that the flue cannot protrude through a boundary wall.. well it already does and was perfectly legal when the properties were build. We cannot move the fire place as there is no other external wall to the lounge and running pipework through 2 upper floor is not desirable, cost effective, or practical.

    Gas Safe have offered no solutions or practical advice merely informing that "It's not our job..." and "you can't have a flue that goes out there".

    Has anyone any practical advice or solutions? This cannot be an isolated case. Any advice gratefully received. We do not want to go electric, though appreciate we may have to if we don't want to stick to a crappy, tired old fire place.
     
  2. Chuck

    Chuck Top Contributor!!

    Would getting the boundary re-defined so it was half-way between the two houses work fix the problem? It's odd that this is not where is is, anyway. Maybe ask your solicitor what they think about approaching your neighbour with a proposal.

    I suspect that the most cost-effective solution is to switch to electricity for that fire.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  3. Craig Watson

    Craig Watson Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Go for an electric or flueless fire.
     
  4. Jay Human

    Jay Human New Member

    Unfortunately I don't think the neighbour would go for a boundary re-definition without some extortionate fee - even though the land is largely blocked off from the garden with a permanent fence at the other side. It's common on the estate (mix of Wimpy, Barratts & Wilson) with the vents positioned in the garden or on the drive of the neighbour.

    Someone has suggested that there can be a pipe running up the side of the house so the gasses vent higher up ?

    I'll check out the flueless fires. Electric is just something neither of us really want.
     
  5. Riley

    Riley S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    No way round it. Rules is rules
     
  6. Riley

    Riley S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    You will need an air vent into the room with the fire in if you have flueless
     
  7. Jay Human

    Jay Human New Member

    Thanks for the info everyone.
     
  8. PETE 123

    PETE 123 Active Member

    If an installer fitted anything and then it was found out it was not allowed it would be the installers fault.
     
  9. Riley

    Riley S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Hence why any sensible GSE does it correctly
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. chris watkins

    chris watkins Plumber Top Contributor!!

    • Like Like x 1
  11. ShaunCorbs

    ShaunCorbs S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

  12. chris watkins

    chris watkins Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Just like the one on my van then !!!
    CAT not fire
     
  13. Riley

    Riley S. Mod Trusted Plumber GSR Top Contributor!!

    Service service service
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. CHRISX

    CHRISX Active Member

    Hello Chris,

    I know that this may cause some disagreement but:

    These Flueless Gas Fires like others are specified to be a `Secondary Heat Source` - not designed to be used when temperatures are really cold because the combustion process will cause condensation to form on Window glass and other cold surfaces.

    Here is a quote from the Flueless Gas Fire Manufacturers website that You gave the link to:

    QUOTE:

    What about condensation?


    All of our flueless fires are designed to supplement central heating and should be used as a secondary heat source only. Therefore, the background ambient temperature of the room will prevent any moisture from condensing on colder surfaces such as single glazed windows.

    END OF QUOTE

    The Manufacturers idea is that they be used when some heat is required but it is not cold enough to merit putting on the Central Heating - or when the Heating system is on but additional Heating is required in the room.

    I am not being pedantic with this message Chris - I wanted to try and ensure that the OP and any future readers of this thread were informed that these Fires are NOT suitable as a `Primary Heat Source` for a room when very Cold temperatures exist.

    Shaun - Catalytic Convertor details on the webpage that member chris watkins gave the link to state that `even after approx 27 Years of use [4 Hours per day ?] the Catalytic Converter has been found to be as good as new` - words to that effect.

    Chris
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. chris watkins

    chris watkins Plumber Top Contributor!!

    Good post CHRISX you make a valid point, I assumed that this was not the primary heating due to the fire being a balanced flue type but of course we don't know & other may read with difference requirements.
    As a more general point, it is my understanding that so long as an appliance was installed in accordance with the Manufacturers Instructions & the Standards as they stood at the time of installation (& of course it is still able to function safety) then it can't be condemned just labelled as not to current standards.
    I am not a gas fire expert but there are still balanced flue fire for sale so based on the principal above what is it in BS5440 - 1 that prevents the replacement installation, if it is like for like ?
    If it is just access or similar that is the issue we use Party Wall Agreement don't we?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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