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I've been using Fernox F3 and on occasion Sentinel X400 to chemically flush out old 8mm microbore heating systems. I've had mixed results with both products, although they generally do the job.

I'm thinking of trying the fast acting stuff Sentinel X800, on a very old and never cleaned 8mm microbore system, which the manufacturers claim works in an hour.

Has anyone tried this stuff or is there something even better than is recommended?
 
Not worth even trying on 8mm repipe time
 
Unfortunately due to financial constraints a repipe is not even an option for this customer at present.

TBH I wouldn't even bother flushing
 
How about flushing solely the pipes with mains water?
(Clean the rads by removing them)
No sure about manifolds though.
I have in the past flushed microbore, but by doing each rad valve into another hose.
No doubt best repiped if possible
 
Personally I hate microbore pipe. I’d do as Shaun suggested and go with 15mm. If the customer is on a tight budget though no harm in giving a go, although explain that they may be no better off. How Many rads is the?
 
I'm going to the job today and will fully open all lockshields and TRV'S, flush out the system with fresh water, refill it and add fast acting Sentinel X800. I'll run this through the system at maximum temperature for an hour, flush it out, refill the system and balance it. If there's still a few cold spots, I'll add the Sentinel X400 and allow it to circulate for two weeks.
The ideal solution is to rip out all the old 8mm pipework and replace the entire heating system, but unfortunately this is not a financial option for this customer at present.
I'll let you know if the chemistry is a success.
 
I used the X800 and it worked a treat.

I fully opened all lockshields and TRV's in the house (3 floors), drained down the system via a rad in the basement and using the fill valve on the boiler, flushed it through with fresh water on each level.

I added the X800 to a rad after removing an air valve, via a filling loop I made up a while back, filled up the system and bled out all the air on all three floors. The instructions say to fire up the boiler and circulate the X800 at working temperature for an hour, so this is what I did.

After about 40 minutes, two of the rads that hadn't been heating up for years, were red hot, as was the entire system.

After an hour, I attached my hose to the basement rad and cracked open the valve. What came out looked like jet black treacle, years of sludge and metal deposits came pouring out. I thoroughly flushed out the X800 and the years of crap it dislodged until the water ran clear.

I refilled the system, added inhibitor, bled every rad and turned on the heating. Every rad in that house is red hot now. I balanced the system throughout the house and both me and the homeowner are very happy at the result.

The chemistry is NOT a cure. It will add life to an ancient 8mm microbore system, until money is available for a repipe. A Magnaclean is now being fitted too.

I'll now offer this to customers who want rads added to their existing systems, as it does dislodge crap that fresh water flushing does not, and it does the business in about an hour.

It's no miracle cure, and won't work on every system, but for 20 quid, it's certainly an option and worth a go.
 
Glad you achieved a big improvement.
I used to just flush systems many years ago by using mains from a garden hose, often removing every rad and also flushing the pipes. It also achieved great results. I think still good to do this as a first clean.
I have found the Fernox F5 good for removing magnetite. The clean looking water in a system will turn grey and a mag filter would pick it all up.
Nothing beats removing microbore pipes and also scrapping old rads imo.
 
Acid would be best. X800 only works for a short time as it's designed for quick powerflush use. After a day in a system it is doing nothing more. Others last longer but are not as strong.

Calmag do a product similar to fx2 it's only £5 a bottle. Works quite well.
 
Acid would be best. X800 only works for a short time as it's designed for quick powerflush use. After a day in a system it is doing nothing more. Others last longer but are not as strong.

Calmag do a product similar to fx2 it's only £5 a bottle. Works quite well.
X800 is the fast acting version and can't be left any longer in the system than an hour before being flushed out.
 
X800 is the fast acting version and can't be left any longer in the system than an hour before being flushed out.

Can be left in upto a week
 
Can be left in upto a week

It's designed to be fast acting and work in only an hour. If you left it in the system for a week, the X800 would not harm the system itself, but all the sludge, rust and debris it has dislodged would get circulated around the system which is not good, and there would be no benefits.

According to Sentinel customer service, here's their recommendations:

Hi there, Sentinel X800 is designed to be flushed out within 1 hour. If you wish to leave the cleaner is for longer we would recommend using the Sentinel X400, this can be left in the system for upto 3 weeks.
Kind regards
Customer Service
 
It's designed to be fast acting and work in only an hour. If you left it in the system for a week, the X800 would not harm the system itself, but all the sludge, rust and debris it has dislodged would get circulated around the system which is not good, and there would be no benefits.

According to Sentinel customer service, here's their recommendations:

Hi there, Sentinel X800 is designed to be flushed out within 1 hour. If you wish to leave the cleaner is for longer we would recommend using the Sentinel X400, this can be left in the system for upto 3 weeks.
Kind regards
Customer Service

True but then it can be left in, same would apply to x400 just move the rubbish around
 
It's on the bottle
This is from the x400 PDF

This is from the x800 PDF

X400 says it can be left in the system for upto 4 weeks. X800 doesn’t say it can be left in the system, which means it cannot.

74C2E42E-151F-46E7-A53B-5984AA6C7297.png


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Ps I have better battery today ;)
 
Will check the bottle I've got as I'm sure it says upto a month
 
It's on the bottle
It doesn't say on any Sentinel X800 bottles that I'm holding right now that it can be left in the system for a week. It says under application on the label on the rear, the following:

To clean in accordance with BS7593 Sentinel X800 should be circulated with all valves open for 1 hour. After cleaning, the system should be drained and flushed through all drain points. If required, can be dosed up to 24 hours in advance......nothing mentioned anywhere about a week.

On the other point, allowing sludge, metal, rust and all the crap that X800 has dislodged to circulate in a 25 year old microbore system for a week will block manifolds, old valves, block dips in microbore pipework and make the system worse before it was flushed. Pointless.
 
It doesn't say on any Sentinel X800 bottles that I'm holding right now that it can be left in the system for a week. It says under application on the label on the rear, the following:

To clean in accordance with BS7593 Sentinel X800 should be circulated with all valves open for 1 hour. After cleaning, the system should be drained and flushed through all drain points. If required, can be dosed up to 24 hours in advance....nothing mentioned anywhere about a week.

On the other point, allowing sludge, metal, rust and all the crap that X800 has dislodged to circulate in a 25 year old microbore system for a week will block manifolds, old valves, block dips in microbore pipework and make the system worse before it was flushed. Pointless.

Doesn't say max how long so it's gone from 1 hour to 1 day :D

It's going to do that anyway as your not flushing just one circuit/ rad
 
Doesn't say max how long so it's gone from 1 hour to 1 day :D

It's going to do that anyway as your not flushing just one circuit/ rad
It's not a week and after using it , the X800 was a great success. I completely flushed it out on the manufacturers recommendation after an hour. Not a trace of anything was left circulating.

Where does it say on the bottle that you claim, that it stays in the system for a week? It recommends that X400 be used instead if longer circulation time is required. Ffs you're worse than the wife for arguing a point that's wrong.
 
:D I do love a good discussion

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Then they need to add it to the actual instructions. Still wouldn’t leave it in there longer than 24 hours as it is not in the instructions.
 
Customer services told me otherwise as I posted earlier and the application label on the bottle doesn't say this. No mention of a week anywhere on the bottle either as you claim.

I can see no advantage to keeping an aggresive cleaner and all the crap it's dislodged longer than it's recommended one hour working time.
 
Nowt wrong with leaving x800 in for a day or two, it stops working after an hour or so tho so any longer us pointless.(it's life is dependant on its use of course) It won't cause a problem either, after an hour it's it's circulating x amount of removed product, after 24hours it's still x amount. If it's going to block up it will in the first hour.
 

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