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ASHP or MAINS GAS?

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Steve Williams

Hi and thanks for reading my query

I am renovating an terraced Edwardian house which will be well insulated. The gas boiler is old and the entire Central Heating system is a mix of ugly rads, normal piping and microbore, in short it needs replacing.
I will be fitting UFH regardless of the ASHP/Gas question as I prefer it and the floor boards need lifting and insulation installed anyway.
We have a mains gas supply.
Is an Air Source Heat Pump a better choice than gas?

Steve
 
Thanks guys, 3-0 then! Does the Renewable Heat Incentive/Green Deal and rising gas prices make any difference to the view its better to stick with gas?
 
It's a sham, you'll probably never see any reward from it like many people who have fitted solar pv
 
have a look on here steve there are a few people complaining the ashp isnt sufficient at certain times of the year
 
I can run ashp cheaper than gas, I know this as I've done it, install cost is quite a bit more yes but with grants rhi etc will be well worth it, I'm travelling to gloucestor soon to do just this. House banked with pv too
 
At the moment mains gas is cheaper but that will change in the years to come. ASHP's if installed correctly work very well, more efficiently than any boiler.
If they didn't work why would Worcester, Glowworm, Vaillant etc all have their own versions?
You have to be able to distinguish between fact and fiction, speak to people who fit them, ask to see one working, verify with the occupiers that everything is ok.
I'm not sure if the RHI will be available for houses connected to the gas network, lots of mixed messages out there so I wouldn't bank on that to offset any costs. The installation cost is greater but in the longer term it has its benefits, no need for flueing, no CO risk, servicing is minimal etc.
 
The trouble is, there are so many variables. Its impossible to give a certain answer.

What will the cost of gas be in years to come?
What will the cost of electricity be in the years to come?
Is the system design right for optimising ASHP in this specific property?
What will government policy be on RHI next year, in 5 years time and in 10 years time?
How long will you live in the property?
What other energy efficiency measures could you have taken with this investment?

You only have to move each assumption by a relatively small amount, and you can "prove" whatever you like.
 
They can be quite noisy, of that there is no doubt. They should be place out of the way if at all possible.
 
Who's are noisy? I've fitted a few now and best so far are Samsung followed by hitachi
 
They all are if the customers expectations aren't set right. The move a lot of air and this constant'ish noise can be intrusive.
 
eaton said:
I can run ashp cheaper than gas, I know this as I've done it, install cost is quite a bit more yes but with grants rhi etc will be well worth it, I'm travelling to gloucestor soon to do just this. House banked with pv too
Click to expand...

With out being rude Eaton, can you tell me how? I have spoken to Grant, Nu-heat, Vaillant, Worcester etc and none of them advise taking anyone off grid, in fact they are against it. NO manufacturer and no mathematics back up your statement. I did log on to start a thread about who is a actually taking customers of the grid for ASHP, as since Christmas I have had four phone calls from customers regarding this. ASHP is not going to touch a low modulating condensing boiler with modulating control. Do any manufacturers post on here?
 
I've specced one against ng and for a 4 bed house. It will run at roughly £60 less than ng.
 
I'd still not advise it though without rhi confirmation as install is likely to be treble and payback time will be quite long
 
On a personal view point. I have Daikin Altherma ASHP in an older not brilliantly insulated house and in comparison to my old house which was smaller and very well insultated, up to current insulation standards with mains gas condensing boiler, my fuel bills are cheaper now with the ASHP and all electric. I run the electric on an economy 18, so cheaper night tariff but also cheaper daytime tariff for the ASHP. I am considering putting 16 PV panels on the roof.

I agree that they are noisier, but not any different to an air con unit. So wont be great for everyone. My ASHP is fine as I do not have any nieghbouring houses close by and I can't even hear it when indoors.
 
That's great to hear. Issue with tarriffs is I think a lot of the energy companies are becoming aware. I'd heard economy 10 was the best for heat pumps but not many offer it. Ill have to look at 18 as I'd not heard of that
 
I am nt sure if economy 18 is available anymore. I managed to get it, but don't think the suppliers are to keen to give it out. Probably because the day time stored heat for the ASHP cheap rate which is only 1p per kW/hr than the night time rate.
 
Ah right, that's still a very good deal, I'd hold onto that forever!!
 
From the Energy Saving Trust website.

What fuel will you be replacing? The system will pay for itself much more quickly if it's replacing an electricity or coal heating system. Heat pumps may not be the best option for homes using mains gas.
Click to expand...
 
Howsie said:
They all are if the customers expectations aren't set right. The move a lot of air and this constant'ish noise can be intrusive.
Click to expand...

are you trying to tell me that gas boilers are totally silent if so why does my old worcester combi wake me up at night when the pump kicks in for no reason, at least with a heat pump they are outside and the noise is barely audible even when standing next to them
 
I am constantly surprised how quiet some of the new gas boilers are, the ideals and remehas in particular
 
Sorry could'nt hear that my ASHP just kicked in:wink_smile:
 
markfxy said:
are you trying to tell me that gas boilers are totally silent if so why does my old worcester combi wake me up at night when the pump kicks in for no reason, at least with a heat pump they are outside and the noise is barely audible even when standing next to them
Click to expand...

Clearly I'm not. :rolleyes:
 
markfxy said:
are you trying to tell me that gas boilers are totally silent if so why does my old worcester combi wake me up at night when the pump kicks in for no reason, at least with a heat pump they are outside and the noise is barely audible even when standing next to them
Click to expand...

Btw, old says it all. Maybe time for a change to a ASHP? ;)
 
I am not going to read below because a really switched on associate of mine
who has vaste experience in the HVAC industry installed a ASHP in his sons house
really just to see ..........and he said to me last Sat that it was rubbish and a total
waste of time and money- his men would not have installed it incorrectly
Steve Williams said:
Hi and thanks for reading my query

I am renovating an terraced Edwardian house which will be well insulated. The gas boiler is old and the entire Central Heating system is a mix of ugly rads, normal piping and microbore, in short it needs replacing.
I will be fitting UFH regardless of the ASHP/Gas question as I prefer it and the floor boards need lifting and insulation installed anyway.
We have a mains gas supply.
Is an Air Source Heat Pump a better choice than gas?

Steve
Click to expand...
 
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