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Jamie Banks

Just completed my 6129 through T4TS basic plumbing and wondering if anyone could get in contact with a recommended progression route to take. Am in full-time employment and have not got in contact with anyone as yet. Based in the North Wales area and just wondering what are peoples views and the best route to go down. Would like to obtain the best training that i can but understand that there are limitations.

Ideally would like to speak to tutors or plumbing supervisors as to what they look for as a competent plumber. Have looked into the NVQ route but one tutor said it cant be done without a plumber the other said maybe by self employed - but sure a few people are in the same boat.

Has there been any new changes with the industry and any chance of doing the 6189 although some of the 6129 may over ride.

Please advice
 
hiya mate, is it tru that u cannot complete ur nvq until u spend 3 months with a plumber wrkin with him/her? isn't it better to do a fast trak, i wanna be self employed by the way so if u hav any reccomendations i will be greatful.
 
you cannot get an nvq without working with an experienced plumber
 
looks like i'm doin a fast trak then. now where's that 5k
 
you can be self employed and do nvq via that route, before anyone argues I did and the nvq side was a doddle, coz its only the basics, once that was all done then you start learning how its all done for real.
 
never said you cannot be self employed, said you must work with a qualified/experienced plumber who can verify you did the work you say you did, the photos are of your work and it was done to a reasonable standard.
if centres are signing off work which is signed by someone who has not witnessed the work i am sure C&G would be interested to hear of this con
 
I am currently on the 6129 Tech Cert lvl3 course with city and guilds through my local college I completed my lvl 2 last year. I have just found out that I have until 31st of March to sign up for the 6129 NVQ2/3 as after this date the course is being replaced by the new format 6189 plumbing diploma.
1 of the requirements for the new 6189 course, is that you wont be able to join unless your already employed in the industry.
Hope I can find employment before 31st of march or I don't know where that will leave me as regards to the last 3 years I have been at college.
 
Had a lad doing a bit of work for me last year on a 6129 course. Some of the stuff is a joke - their hand book describes securing leadwork with lead clips made from bits of lead like grandad used to - This is antiquated practice - industry standard has long since been to use the purpose made "Hall" clips made from spring steel. No mention was made of lead flashing sealing compound and it just described pointing (again an old idea). Another one is how to rewashering pillar taps but not modern taps / 1/4 turn cartridges etc. What percentage of houses still have the old style pillar taps? The whole thing really needs updating
 
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Had a lad doing a bit of work for me last year on a 6129 course. Some of the stuff is a joke - their hand book describes securing leadwork with lead clips made from bits of lead like grandad used to - This is antiquated practice - industry standard has long since been to use the purpose made "Hall" clips made from spring steel. No mention was made of lead flashing sealing compound and it just described pointing (again an old idea). Another one is how to rewashering pillar taps but not modern taps / 1/4 turn cartridges etc. What percentage of houses still have the old style pillar taps? The whole thing really needs updating

but it is being updated?????????
even so, if we are aiming to teach a trade instead of partly skilled cowboys we must teach all aspects of the trade, not just quick modern methods, who wants just a speedfit plumber?
 
Yes we should teach a skilled trade - My point is, we should be teaching methods which are the recognised industry standard, not outdated methods no longer recommended. (lead clips and lead sheet sealant being the examples I came across).
 
Its ok Teaching a trade like plumbing at college and being able to gain basic understanding of plumbing systems, but the problem I have come across is that with-out being able to get an employer in the trade, how can I further my-self with the practical skills needed to fully qualify as a fully trained and skilled plumber if there are no jobs out there?
The thing I hear all the time is that with a trade like plumbing there is always work out there and most good decent plumbers are busy even in this tuff climate, but where is there a need for a trainee ?
Surely there is a massive benefit to an employer for taking on trainees, ie tax benefits and cheap labour and providing the trainee can show that he/she is a fast learner and dedicated then thats good for business all round.?
Yes colleges can teach the underpinning knowledge in plumbing but you can't really learn to plumb until your working in the trade getting that hands on experience.
 
vaughan you are spot on, that is why they are removing the 6129 tech cert, to stop people wasting money and centres praying on the vunrable getting their money off them and sending them away without experience or full qualifications.
 
Trouble is that many plumbers (myself included) may be OK for work at the moment but things could go very lean again so

a, I would rather work up to a 60 hour week at the moment and keep the cash and save it in case things go lean later than take on a trainee

b, If things go lean I would have to let the trainee go.

c, I'm sure some tradesmen may be a little worried about a trainee setting up in competition to them in future where work is scarce.

If times were good, I would certainly consider taking someone on. It's just that things are so uncertain at the moment.
 
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i totaly understand what your saying and see your point, i personaly have offered to work unpaid so that i can gain my qualifications but would not want to set up on my own for at least five years, to gain experience in the trade before working for myself and that would still only give me the basic knowledge.
but im sure there is enough work to go around, government are saying that there is a shotfall in trades like plumbing and that they want to increase the number of people in the trade but yet i dont see any evidence of them doing any thing to improve this.
 
there is NO shortage, there is a shortage of apprentices for school leavers, very much different. they want to encourage school leavers so they get a skill, adults retraining isnt an issue for the goverment, in fact it further drins resources unless they pay for theirselves. if it was such an issue dont you think the gov would pay? like they did 10 years ago?
 
It really shouldn't depend on what age someone is to learn a trade, I know when I was 16 if I had gone to college to learn a trade I would of probably not finished the course because I was not in the right mind set about getting a qualification that was going to set me up for life, and didn't really know what I wanted to do with my life at that age. Now armed with a few more life skills and more mature I know I have to work hard to get what I want out of life.
At the age of 16 I was more interested in chasing skirt and going out on the beers with the lads.
Now 29 I am more focused on Water Regulations, Boilers, Renewable energy and Bs6700.
10 years ago I could of got my education for free but now have to pay my own way, so what difference does it make to educate 16-19 year olds for free and not older people that want to retrain? Still going to get the same end result Qualified trades people.
 
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There is funding out there for people that want to re-train so its not all bad, ie Train to Gain but again this falls back on the employer being able to offer a job in the first place.
Where are all the jobs????
Rant over now about the government. Feel much better now, Can get on with my revision knowing I have got that of my chest. haha.
The morel of the story is when you leave school buckle down and get educated. And just hope there are jobs out there for you when you qualify.
 
There is funding out there for people that want to re-train so its not all bad, ie Train to Gain but again this falls back on the employer being able to offer a job in the first place.
Where are all the jobs????
Rant over now about the government. Feel much better now, Can get on with my revision knowing I have got that of my chest. haha.
The morel of the story is when you leave school buckle down and get educated. And just hope there are jobs out there for you when you qualify.

TRAIN 2 GAIN has been finished, there is no more funding left for new t2g's.

It no longer exsists as such

T2G was for the employer not the student
 
Its still available as I am going through the process of applying for it at the min I think it finishes in March but there will be something replacing it but the details of which I am not sure.
 
the availability is very minimal, depends on centres not reeaching their limits so your lucky if you get it

the replacement wont be as easy, nothing is, the details arnt even available yet
 
government are saying that there is a shotfall in trades like plumbing and that they want to increase the number of people in the trade but yet i dont see any evidence of them doing any thing to improve this.

Don't believe anything the government tell you.

There is no shortfall in plumbers at all in fact in the last few years because of the usual drivel being spouted, the trade is probably more oversubscribed with badly trained inexperienced so called tradesmen than it has ever been at any point in the past.
Yet people say you can never get a plumber when you want one!
You want a plumber in a day or so, next week or the week after there are 1000's to choose from. Want one in an hour there are not very many. We are mostly doing planned work not sitting waiting for the phone to ring.
 
Do you think that these fast track centers have been the reason for un-experienced not very well trained trades people flooding the industry? (excuse the pun)
 
not entirely vaughan, i think they havnt helped for sure but i suppose they are just providing a service. i blame the government. they started all this fuss, they designed the courses. alot of people fell for it, were in a vunrable position wanting to make good any opportunity and private centres filled their boots. many colleges did also but not as bad. i feel some centres info is out of date and misleading
 
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