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Hi all,just thought id mention this because i had a heated debate with 2 other gas engineers about the drop allowance when doing a tightness test.Last week 1 of the engineers left a 2 millibar drop at a property and said it was fine to do so as it was a g4 meter..i said ok but could you isolate all the appliances,he said yes...then i said well if you isolate all of them and then do another tightness test and it still drops 2 millbar then your not allowed to leave it because your not allowed ANY drop on pipework OLD or NEW,he said your allowed up to 4 millibar on a g4 meter in all cases...so to back my point up i got him to ring gas safe and they told him he was wrong...just thought id mention it incase any other engineers have been doing the same thing...let me know your views and what you think....
 
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Hi all,just thought id mention this because i had a heated debate with 2 other gas engineers about the drop allowance when doing a tightness test.Last week 1 of the engineers left a 2 millibar drop at a property and said it was fine to do so as it was a g4 meter..i said ok but could you isolate all the appliances,he said yes...then i said well if you isolate all of them and then do another tightness test and it still drops 2 millbar then your not allowed to leave it because your not allowed ANY drop on pipework OLD or NEW,he said your allowed up to 4 millibar on a g4 meter in all cases...so to back my point up i got him to ring gas safe and they told him he was wrong...just thought id mention it incase any other engineers have been doing the same thing...let me know your views and what you think....

this is 100% correct, the dodgy bit for me is that you dont NEED to isolate the appliances to confirm whether it is appliance or carcass leak, some people will argue that is wrong or poor working practice, but it has been confirmed many yrs ago with CORGI, if you have 2mb drop on existing carcass which has an appliance it is fine to leave. IF you choose to disconnect the appliance to assit identification of the leak and you find it is on the carcass it CANNOT be left
 
i thought that with a 2mb drop or anything like that(within the limits) on an existing system it would be fine as long as there is no smell of gas? correct me if im wrong.
 
hi kirkgas,yeah it is correct...the bit i dont get is how people will think isolating the appliances is wrong or poor practice,as isolating them(if possible to do so) gives you the answer to your problem straight away...
 
Hi GQuigley67,the 2 other engineers who i am talking about thought exactly the same,as long as there's no smell of gas you can leave it on existing pipework if its within the limits,this only apply's if you have an appliance that cannot be isolated(e.g-a gas hob with no isolation tap).if you can isolate all the appliances then you are not allowed any drop on any pipework old or new...
 
ok that's fine, i've never actually had a drop on the pipework before so have never had to do it, so was just wondering thanks :)
 
hi kirkgas,yeah it is correct...the bit i dont get is how people will think isolating the appliances is wrong or poor practice,as isolating them(if possible to do so) gives you the answer to your problem straight away...

no what i meant was people will think it bad practice NOT to isolate the appliances
 
Hi GQuigley67,the 2 other engineers who i am talking about thought exactly the same,as long as there's no smell of gas you can leave it on existing pipework if its within the limits,this only apply's if you have an appliance that cannot be isolated(e.g-a gas hob with no isolation tap).if you can isolate all the appliances then you are not allowed any drop on any pipework old or new...

Hmmm..Ok so youve found a leak "within limits" on a gas carcass conected to a boiler, the boiler has an iso valve on it, where does it then say that you Have to then isolate the apliance and test again?. ( I will always Isolate first afetr finding a drop btw) Iam genuinly just interested.
 
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Hmmm..Ok so youve found a leak "within limits" on a gas carcass conected to a boiler, the boiler has an iso valve on it, where does it then say that you Have to then isolate the apliance and test again?. ( I will always Isolate first afetr finding a drop btw) Iam genuinly just interested.

it doesnt say it anywhere, if it is carcass only you have no drop, if it is a new install you have no drop, if it is existing carcass with appliances connected there is a table to tell you the permisible drop, depending on meter and pipe size, some people interpret the regs as there being a need to isolate an appliance to check the carcass only, but you dont need to, i have no issue with anyone who does isolate an appliance to confirm it is on the carcass and therefore must be fixed, as long as they clarify it with the person who is ultimately going to get the invoice, as an aside, when i test an existing caracc with appliances and i find a drop i mark it on the paperwork to give the owner the opportunity to decide whether they want the leak fixed at a later date or not, as i interpret the regs as it being their choice after i have informed them, it is perfectly acceptable to tick the PASS box, but i always note the drop as well
 
Hmmm..Ok so youve found a leak "within limits" on a gas carcass conected to a boiler, the boiler has an iso valve on it, where does it then say that you Have to then isolate the apliance and test again?. ( I will always Isolate first afetr finding a drop btw) Iam genuinly just interested.
Exactly what KIRKGAS was saying; "it don't say you have too". Everyone has their own views on this. Personaly I am not happy to see any drop on the gauge. If I did see the slight drop, I would most likely, if practicble, check it with the appliance iso valves off to make sure and always ask the occupier if they ever smell gas anywhere in the property.
 
Hi Blackcatgas, I didn't say that it says you HAVE to then isolate the appliance and test again,this is just the procedure that i would take..i am just trying to make sure that everyone is aware as 2 engineers i know were not and could of got into bother...
 
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This is why it is important to carry and use testing and purging forms. Record what you are testing and your findings. If a permissable drop is found, it is then at the discretion of the individual operative as to whether or not appliances are then isolated and further tested.

Personally, as most others also, i would isolate and retest but i can see why it may not be done especially by the guys under time pressure on jobs.
Same thing with there being no requirement to do a tightness test when service /repair or doing a landlords cert. It is up to you to make the call.
 
Are you sure you don't have to with a landlord cert,after all it is a gas safety certificate and by not doing a tightness test your not checking that all the gas is safe are you...
 
If there is no smell of gas you can assume the install is gas tight. There is no requirement to do a tightness test otherwise.
Just look at the people that set the standard for us all- British Gas.:rolleyes:
The house would need to be seconds away from exploding into flames before good old BG decide a tightness test is required.
 
There is no legal requirement to do a tightness test when doing a landlord cert. (GSIUR 26.9)

I know all forms have a box for tightness test but it doesn't have to be done. It is good practice to carry one out but very much up to the engineer and the time pressure they may be put under by their employers.

As GrahamM said, BG engineers will rarely do a tightness test.
 
well the rules state that if you break into gas then you must do a tightness test and to do a service or CP12 properly you have to break into gas to to the pressure checks so in that case that means it must be carried out...
 
well the rules state that if you break into gas then you must do a tightness test and to do a service or CP12 properly you have to break into gas to to the pressure checks so in that case that means it must be carried out...

isolate the gas supply to the boiler and after your service do a mini tightness test on the appliance, if it holds then its fine.
 
There is no legal requirement to do a tightness test when doing a landlord cert. (GSIUR 26.9)



thought 26.9 was **** ,flue ,air ,gas,safety therefore a tightness test is required under safety i would do one anyway full stop as i couldnt walk a away with a drop anything on a g4 ie 20mb to 18mb makes me very uneasy even tho your allowed to go down to 16mb dont think i would
 
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Tightness test on lanlord gas safety check? Landlords have a duty to maintain gas appliances, flues and pipework. Do you therfore do a tightness test to forefill the miantain pipework part of the regs? Personaly I do, as the question is on the sheet. Makes me feel more confident if I have.
 
well the rules state that if you break into gas then you must do a tightness test and to do a service or CP12 properly you have to break into gas to to the pressure checks so in that case that means it must be carried out...

no it doesnt, when i do a service properly i disconnect as required and then when i put the bits back together i test everything to the nearest downstream valve (the appliance iso ) with LDF, and i fully comply with the regs, when doing LGSC's it was part of our contract/price to do a TT, but a contract which is stricter than the regs doesnt make it mandatory for every job, it is reasonable for us all to have slightly different points of view on things, but i think it is totally unprofessional for some of us not to know the regs
 
maybe im being over cautious but i tightness test every time i go near or touch anything on gas side.
 
This is from the guide notes (219) of Reg 36 Duties of Landlords

'Installation pipework is not covered by the annual safety check but it is recommended that a test for soundness on the whole gas system, including installation pipework, together with visual examination (as far as is reasonably practicable) of the pipework, be made at the same time as the safety check'.

So it's not law but it is recommended.
 
maybe im being over cautious but i tightness test every time i go near or touch anything on gas side.

it is very admirable of you to do a TT every time, however, on a job where you do not have to, say you find a 0.5mb drop, do you then isolate the appliances to confirm it is on carcass, and if it is on the carcass you then need to repair or cap it off, what would your customer say about being left with no gas, or an additional invoice for a few hundred quid, (have you ever had to look for a 0.5mb drop, it ends up easier to renew the whole carcass) of the guys i know who do TT's every time, some stop after initial test and inform the customer that there is a small drop which can be left and attended to later, therefore allowing the customer to make an informed choice and still have their appliances in use, do you do this or the full test i described above? i never have an issue with people being over cautious as long as they discuss it with the bill payer before they take it upon themselves to over step the regs, it really isnt about you being safer/better than those who dont, it is about you being a pro and knowing your job/the regs
 
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it only takes 5 min and what we dont want is this to turn around to be the most important 5 min in your life thereafter full of regret !!!
 
Agree with all. The regs are not that specific. If I service a boiler, it is not a requirement to carry out a TT of the whole system (LDF sufficient or test from the inlet test point). In the case of a landlord check, I do a TT because the landlord has a duty to pipework and although it does not tell you everything, at least it will be tested and left safe. I have been to properties and found gas leaks on the carcass during a gas safety check, therefore I think there is benefit to do the TT in a LGSR.
 
everytime i go to touch any gas pipework i will do a tt before hand and thgen after.
for example if i was going to fit a cooker i would do a tt before and after.
I think anyone who thinks you can do a landlord safety check without carrying out a tt is very wrong.
Landlords have a duty to make sure propertys are safe and without an annual tightness test along with the other parts of the check this cannot be properly confirmed.
how anyone can touch anything that carries gas and not carry out a very simple 5 min job of tt is beyond me.
The regs can be interprotated in different ways but I think if you had gas safe on one of your jobs like on a probation visit and told them you were doing safety checks but not doing a tt they would tell you that is wrong.
 
I think if you had gas safe on one of your jobs like on a probation visit and told them you were doing safety checks but not doing a tt they would tell you that is wrong.

No they wouldn't. They may however say it was advisable.
 
Gas Safe register inspector, will ask you to do TT. But if you look on the standard LGSR form, at tightness testing box, it asks pass or fail; does it mention not tested?
 
Steve i have to disagree with you on this one.
I know full well it is advisable and good practice to do one. I do one. 90% of fitters do one. But, it is not a legal requirement.
The people who make the forms don't make the rules. You just score it out or write N/A, not tested or whatever else you want to fulfill the usual CYA.
 
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