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chubsy

I am looking for advice on what would be the best, not necessarily the cheapest,
combi boiler to have installed. I live in a 3 bed semi and want to replace the
existing boiler to create space and hopefully save some money in energy costs.
The existing boiler is a Potterton Netaheat 16-22 MK-II and has had ample
capacity as far as I am concerned to provide hot water and keep the property
warm.
The boiler was fitted in 1978 and the only items replaced in the boiler during
this period have been the electronic ignition and the plug in relay.
Other items replaced over time include the Grunfoss pump and the Honeywell V4073
Y plan valve. The original Randal clockwork timer was replaced with a more
flexible electronic controller.
Over the years, as the property was upgraded all radiators have been replaced
and 8mm microbore has been changed out to be 15mm to all radiators.
The system has been regularly dosed with cleaner and flushed and refilled with
protector.
I have looked at some online RAD calc web sites and have used room size figures
to calculate that the total BTUs of all radiators is 38247 or 11.269 Kw. I now
need to know how this translates into the size of boiler to maintain the level
of heating I now enjoy. The boiler would not be needed to supply a shower as I
will be using an electric shower but I do want to be able to fill a bath in a
sensible time.
I have looked at the BAXI Duotec range only because the Which report on this
type of boiler gave it a best buy in 2008 but I am now concerned after reading a
comment on a heating web site that the PCB's may be unreliable and that the
spares costs are exorbitant. I would like a boiler as reliable as the one I've
had for the last 20 odd years. I am aslo wanting to have a Magnaclear fitted at
the same time and would value any comment you may have on this product.
As I said at the start I am looking to create space and this means that the
boiler would be fitted in the loft. I know that here are specific regulations
when fitting a boiler in a loft.
My loft is fully floored and has lighting it also has a drop-down ladder fitted
to the hatch. Although I don't think it is a requirement, I will be fitting a
mains powered smoke and Carbon Monoxide Detector. Is there anything else needed
to allow the boiler to be fitted in this location?
Any advice would be appreciated.
 
every plumber has their own favorite boiler, one they install most of and gives them reliability and peace of mind. my favorite at the moment is the broagg. a year ago it was the valiant, the year before that it was worcester.

speak to whoever you planned to install it, and discuss your above requirements!

as for installing it in the lodt, if you want it done right, have your local council planning inspectors around and they can advise you of up to date building regs.

good luck
shaun
 
I am looking for advice on what would be the best, not necessarily the cheapest,
combi boiler to have installed. I live in a 3 bed semi and want to replace the
existing boiler to create space and hopefully save some money in energy costs.
The existing boiler is a Potterton Netaheat 16-22 MK-II and has had ample
capacity as far as I am concerned to provide hot water and keep the property
warm.
The boiler was fitted in 1978 and the only items replaced in the boiler during
this period have been the electronic ignition and the plug in relay.
Other items replaced over time include the Grunfoss pump and the Honeywell V4073
Y plan valve. The original Randal clockwork timer was replaced with a more
flexible electronic controller.
Over the years, as the property was upgraded all radiators have been replaced
and 8mm microbore has been changed out to be 15mm to all radiators.
The system has been regularly dosed with cleaner and flushed and refilled with
protector.
I have looked at some online RAD calc web sites and have used room size figures
to calculate that the total BTUs of all radiators is 38247 or 11.269 Kw. I now
need to know how this translates into the size of boiler to maintain the level
of heating I now enjoy. The boiler would not be needed to supply a shower as I
will be using an electric shower but I do want to be able to fill a bath in a
sensible time.
I have looked at the BAXI Duotec range only because the Which report on this
type of boiler gave it a best buy in 2008 but I am now concerned after reading a
comment on a heating web site that the PCB's may be unreliable and that the
spares costs are exorbitant. I would like a boiler as reliable as the one I've
had for the last 20 odd years. I am aslo wanting to have a Magnaclear fitted at
the same time and would value any comment you may have on this product.
As I said at the start I am looking to create space and this means that the
boiler would be fitted in the loft. I know that here are specific regulations
when fitting a boiler in a loft.
My loft is fully floored and has lighting it also has a drop-down ladder fitted
to the hatch. Although I don't think it is a requirement, I will be fitting a
mains powered smoke and Carbon Monoxide Detector. Is there anything else needed
to allow the boiler to be fitted in this location?
Any advice would be appreciated.


im a vaillant man myself
the basics for a loft install are flooring lighting access and a guard rail around the loft hatch although im yet to see one
with a combi the heat load of the rads isnt the factor used to size as the abilty to heat running water is far more demanding
go for a 28kw minimum
when comparing hot water outputs of each boiler the usual standard is for a x litres per minute at 35degrees in temp rise to this is the figure to check against
if you go for 30kw plus you have more chance of running two outlets at the same time there are also storage models available which increase the hot water output
as for finding a boiler thats going to be as reliable as the neta heat forget it .nothing lasts like that any more your new condensing boiler will be more efficent but almost certainly less reliable
before going for a combi check yhat your main supplies enough flow and preasure
 
vaillant eco tec 831 around 1000-1050 to buy expect rough cost of 2000.00 to do all the work incl trvs running new gas supply etc but this is only a ballpark figure as you may have access problems for the pipework and it may well be a lot of copper piping especially if the gas needs updating and remember thats going to be quite a long pipe run for the gas and could possibly even need bigger than 22mm if it has a lot of elbows etc
my guess is parts alone will be in the region of 1200.00 and i wouldnt touch it for less than 800.00 labour
 
vaillant eco tec 831 around 1000-1050 to buy expect rough cost of 2000.00 to do all the work incl trvs running new gas supply etc but this is only a ballpark figure as you may have access problems for the pipework and it may well be a lot of copper piping especially if the gas needs updating

Yes, I agree with the above Vaillant atm is the way to go best boiler on the market for the cost!
 
The boiler was fitted in 1978 and the only items replaced in the boiler during this period have been the electronic ignition and the plug in relay.
Don't expect a modern boiler to last 30 years! Ten years is probably the maximum (How does that save energy over the life cycle of the boiler?)

I have looked at some online RAD calc web sites and have used room size figures to calculate that the total BTUs of all radiators is 38247 or 11.269 Kw.
Your existing boiler can supply between 16 and 22kW, what it is set at can be checked by gas rating. i.e measuring how much gas it uses in a hour. It will range from 2.1 to 2.8 cu.m/h (74 to 98 cu.ft/h). Just take two meter readings a minute apart when the boiler is running full pelt and work out the boiler output from that. If you deduct 2kW for hot water, you will find out how much heat is currently available for central heating. This may not be waht you still need as insulation has probably been improved since the boiler was installed.

The results obtained from rad calc websites tend to differ widely as they to not use the same criteria. HOw did you arrive at your result - is it the lowest, highest, average or what? Have you compared the calculated requirement for each room against the size of the rad in the room? With any luck you will find that the rads are now larger than required, which is a good thing as it means the boiler can be run in condensing mode more often.

I am also wanting to have a Magnaclean fitted at the same time and would value any comment you may have on this product.
Good idea.

As for the size of boiler you need, there are two things to consider: Heating and Hot Water. Although combi boilers are sized for the Hot Water requirement, the heating requirement must not be overlooked. This is because the heating requirement is not constant but varies with the weather. You may need 12kW in the depths of winter but not in the spring. This is where the modulation range of the boiler is important. For example, the Vaillant 831 suggested will provided 31kW for hot water and between 8.7 and 24kW for heating. Based on your 12kW requirement the boiler will only be modulating between 12kW and 8.7kW. This equates to an outside temperature range of -1°C to 5°C. Once the outside temperture exceeds 5°C the boiler cannot modulate any lower, so it goes into on/off mode, which is not so efficient.
 
First of all what a great forum. This is the frst time I've used the site and I am impressed with the quick replies. I appreciate the time you've taken to reply and provide really useful information.

I have looked at the two boilers being suggested and quite fancied the idea that the Remeha Broag could be accessed from a PC to monitor the status etc. but will probably go for the Vaillant ecotec plus 831 as my local plumbing outlets do stock this boiler and can recommend heating engineers with experience of fitting the Vaillant.

(doitmyself) asked how I came to the rad size calcs, I used this site to calculate the individual rad sizes
Radcalcs radiator btu sizing site and then
after submitting my first post to this forum I found this site
Replacement Boiler Size Calculator where the whole house calculation worked out to be 11.99kW.
If I do go for the Vaillant I would like to use a RF remote timer/stat do you know if the
Siemens (RDJ10RF RCR10/433) is compatible with the Vaillant?
 
I would go for the De Gaulle model made by La Gloire, its specifications are unprecedented. It will produce 200 litres per minute of hot water whilst the central heating is stil operating. There is no running costs as the boiler pays the consumer 100 euro's for each Kw of energy used. The days of roomstats etc are long gone, all you need now is the revolutionary La Gloire "Napoleon" consumer control. This is a device which the end user places on their head and communicates to the boiler via telepathy, thereby giving the user ultimate control of their domestic environment. If you thought it couldn't get better than that, it does, after all the innovation, they send Frenchmen out to install it, baring in mind the least competent French plumbing engineer is superior to 90% of British engineers. Last, but not least, the boiler is backed by La Gloire's much heralded "Infinity" warrenty (not that you'll need it), given the consumer ultimate peace of mind. Do not make the mistake of millions by purchasing a boiler made in Blighty, the build quality will be appalling. Still not sold?. Remember this, the British, who ran the worlds Largest empire and invented 58% of the 20th century's inventions cannot run a Brothel, while the illustrious French were raped by their neighbour three times in less than a hundred years. I know who I would go with. Viva la France
 
I would go for the De Gaulle model made by La Gloire, its specifications are unprecedented. It will produce 200 litres per minute of hot water whilst the central heating is stil operating. There is no running costs as the boiler pays the consumer 100 euro's for each Kw of energy used. The days of roomstats etc are long gone, all you need now is the revolutionary La Gloire "Napoleon" consumer control. This is a device which the end user places on their head and communicates to the boiler via telepathy, thereby giving the user ultimate control of their domestic environment. If you thought it couldn't get better than that, it does, after all the innovation, they send Frenchmen out to install it, baring in mind the least competent French plumbing engineer is superior to 90% of British engineers. Last, but not least, the boiler is backed by La Gloire's much heralded "Infinity" warrenty (not that you'll need it), given the consumer ultimate peace of mind. Do not make the mistake of millions by purchasing a boiler made in Blighty, the build quality will be appalling. Still not sold?. Remember this, the British, who ran the worlds Largest empire and invented 58% of the 20th century's inventions cannot run a Brothel, while the illustrious French were raped by their neighbour three times in less than a hundred years. I know who I would go with. Viva la France

I see that we have a French lover amongst us:D
 
Hi all, new member to this site and in need of any advice on a new combi boiler that I need to purchase. I live in a 4 bedroom bungalow with 12 rads and also two gas fires that I am replacing. My supplier is pushing the, Intergas Combi Compact HRE 24/18, price, 1000 euros, any views on this model would be appreciated or any other advice, Thanks.
 
is that a 24 kilowatt boiler? i wouldn't waste my money on a combi less than 28kw your water flow rate will be p155 poor push the boat out and get the best you can afford a worcester junior or cdi , baxi duotec/ potterton promax the list goes on.............. just dont buy cheap!!
 
Thanks for the quick reply. Intergas also do 28/24 and 36/30, so no problem there, but just wondering what is the view on intergas boilers as boilers go? Thanks.
 
Thanks for the quick reply. Intergas also do 28/24 and 36/30, so no problem there, but just wondering what is the view on intergas boilers as boilers go? Thanks.
Never heard of them.:confused:
 
I see that we have a French lover amongst us:D

Nothing wrong with French lovers

Regarding the combi ... I have a Vaillant in my house.
Impressive performance on both hot water and heating and reasonably economic.
 
intergas are moving into the uk quite fast, another dutch firm, good warranty ,well designed for the installer and maintainer.

as far as french plumbing is concerned, my visits to my sister in law in toulouse only made me want to come home to reliable boilers and plumbing. Only the army uses holes in the ground to deposit waste in the uk, and the wc that was installed a week prior to my visit was 12" off the wall with no support for the cistern which soon became less than close coupled. Better still the french plumber ran the soil pipe into the ground. Only after they enquired with french building regs did my in laws discover they needed a cess pit to be put in!!!!
 
First thanks to forum members for the advice and just to update the forum, I got a Worcester Bosch 30Cdi installed at the end of October 2009. What a difference it has made both to how quickly the house heats up and the very fast supply of hot water. The only downside I don't like is the fiddly key arrangement used instead of a filling loop to refill the system. I can never manage to get it to work without leakinh some weater. I fitted the magnaclean and it too was a good idea.
 
Hi all,
Great site. I have a Modena 102, installed when this 2-bed flat was built 10 years ago. It's always been eccentric. Now it's psychotic: sometimes working fine for CH and HW, but usually firing up for a few seconds then leaving me, and the water, freezing. I think it could be pricey to fix because on the day a plumber comes .... it's bound to be fine.

So, fix, or replace?

If replace - with what?
The flat has 7 radiators, but I tend to use ony 2 or 3, and have the usual requirements for HW in shower etc.
What would be a reliable boiler, easily fitted to replace the Modena? And how much might it cost, either to fix, or replace?

Can any of you brilliant contributors help me? Fingers crossed.

Good Wishes,
Caralyn
 
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