2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March 1st

[EasyMCSLtd]

For 2 weeks our Head MCS Mentor will be discussing MCS Accreditation, what's involved, common fears and misconceptions, and for those who have already achieved MCS, the importance of maintaining it, spot checks and your annual audit.

Feel free to ask as many questions as you like.

Looking forward to your questions.

Easy MCS Ltd
Easy MCS Ltd | The Award Winning - MCS Accreditation & Renewable Training Specialists
0844 414 60 41

 

[twister]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I am a one man, ltd company and interested in MCS accreditation, what is required outside of training in the technologies (ASHP's and wet solar primarily) to get my MCS registration, likely cost and timescale to get registered?
Thanks,
Iain

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I am a one man, ltd company and interested in MCS accreditation, what is required outside of training in the technologies (ASHP's and wet solar primarily) to get my MCS registration, likely cost and timescale to get registered?
Thanks,
Iain

Iain

Outside of the competancies in the particular technologies, you need to have a Quality Management System in place that meets the 18 Clauses of MCS. If you go to the MCS website you can download the MCS001, you will find the 18 Clauses in appendix A of this document. This is the main installer standard and covers all technologies. The Microgeneration Certification Scheme - Home . You would then download the Installation Standards for the particular technologies you are considering applying for.

You will also need an installation for the assessing body to look at.
Your costs would be in the region of:

Charges to Assessing body - for 1 technology about £580 and for 2 about £750 This is dependant on the body used.

REAL - You are required to be a member of the REAL - If you have under 6 employees involved in Microgeneration your costs would be £220.

If you needed us to sort out your Quality Management System and mentor you through the process we can do this for you from £495.

As to time scales, normally you are looking at about 4 to 6 weeks for the assessment, although if we feel you are prepared we can sometimes arrange a fast track.

If you need any further advice or information about our services please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

Hi there,

I understand REAL membership is the consumer code for domestic households. I only do commercial work, do i still need to be a member?

Spanner

Although REAL only covers domestic work you still need to be a member in order to gain MCS Certification. Your costs to REAL are based on your number of employees, however, if you do not carry out domestic work you would only pay the base £220 rate no matter how many employees you have.

 

[johnf]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

We continually hear that there is little take up by the trades on renewables due to the "trades" not embracing the new technologies. My main reason for not joining to date is simple. MCS is currently geared to companies employing a few people or more, not the majority of people employed within the plumbing and heating industry with one or two people within the business. At £800 ish per year in costs for your MCS and real fees before you leave the front door it is simply too expensive to "embrace". The current scheme excludes small businesses from joining. Where does the £800 fee come from? No other body charges so much for so little! If the costs became more realistic more companies would join.

Cheers

John

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

We continually hear that there is little take up by the trades on renewables due to the "trades" not embracing the new technologies. My main reason for not joining to date is simple. MCS is currently geared to companies employing a few people or more, not the majority of people employed within the plumbing and heating industry with one or two people within the business. At £800 ish per year in costs for your MCS and real fees before you leave the front door it is simply too expensive to "embrace". The current scheme excludes small businesses from joining. Where does the £800 fee come from? No other body charges so much for so little! If the costs became more realistic more companies would join.

Cheers

John

John

You can hear from some quarters that the cost of MCS runs into £10,000 or more, so at least you are correct with about £800. It isn't for me to justify the costs or to decide whether the different parties who share it out are taking their fair share. however, the vast majority of businesses I speak to and help through are small companies and one man bands. They have taken the decision that they can make profits from renewables.


It is also the case that many Housing Associations and Local Authorities are seeing the MCS mark as a sign of quality and insisting on it from their contractors.

The electricians have come forward in large numbers with the incentive of the Feed in Tariff, it may be that the Plumbers will follow suit when their is more certainty on the RHI.

 

[johnf]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I agree to some extent that there is slow take up without knowing what scales will be set on the RHI, however as electricians have found the goverment seem to be able to back track once they set the figures. The figures once they are announced could be "adjusted" as has already been seen!
All that I can see the MCS scheme being at present with regards to quality is that your paperwork is governed by many forms, many of them irrelevant to small businesses. Very similar to ISO 9000 series of QA documents, having a yearly audit and a visit to a renewables job you have carried out within the 12 Month period. I personally believe the whole thing needs a drastic overhaul if the goverment are realistic even getting near the targets set out in the Kyoto agreement. The Green Deal is a bit half hearted as well to be hosest. How long has the Renewables issue been around? The Goverment only passed the Energy bill on the 18th October 2011! I just dont believe the government is convinced about the whole issue yet. They probably need a few more years to think about it.

John

You can hear from some quarters that the cost of MCS runs into £10,000 or more, so at least you are correct with about £800. It isn't for me to justify the costs or to decide whether the different parties who share it out are taking their fair share. however, the vast majority of businesses I speak to and help through are small companies and one man bands. They have taken the decision that they can make profits from renewables.


It is also the case that many Housing Associations and Local Authorities are seeing the MCS mark as a sign of quality and insisting on it from their contractors.

The electricians have come forward in large numbers with the incentive of the Feed in Tariff, it may be that the Plumbers will follow suit when their is more certainty on the RHI.

 

[markfxy]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

MCS, green deal, RHI one big scam all designed to push the sole trader out of the renewables market whilst letting the double glazing cowboys get away with murder.

 

[eaton]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I'm one man band and mcs, did it with easy mcs to be honest, there's a thread at top of page that's worth a read and I've posted lots on their re costs, for me I did 2 manufacturers heat pump courses and a bpec course, I also did solar thermal training bpec, these took 8 days all in so factor that in, other costs from start to finish inc buying tools needed etc we're around 4k. Youll have to inform insurance company's too as most won't touch it. I've done a few heat pumps and 2 solar jobs since, been out to fix 6 solar jobs others have bodged, I've possibly covered my outlay nearly but this is 18 months down the line. If doing again I'd personally wait and see what the government do, as easymcs said can be sorted in 6 weeks if pushed, we on the inside are very doubtful of any government help coming in and if it does will be pitiful. Ashp are not even on the list still. Gshp are a joke to price unless you have a farm, bore holes costing av 6k for a 3 bed semi, so you won't sell much

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

MCS, green deal, RHI one big scam all designed to push the sole trader out of the renewables market whilst letting the double glazing cowboys get away with murder.

That seems to be a self fulfilling prophesy, MCS and the Green Deal is there for the one man band as much as the big guy. From our side, we have seen the Biomass side growing over the last few months as consumers who are having to pay large oil bills realise they can make significant savings (and wood pellets are not so easy to steal). The Heat Pump side has also been steady, despite the confusion over the new Heat Pump Standard.

Many in the industry feel as you do, but others are deciding that they can make profits from renewables and are doing so.

 

[Cosyloft]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

Twister
keep your money the work is very hard to find we have been MCS registered for 1 year the only work we have received is the work we done on own properties
the award winning body say at assessment that once you are approved the phoned don't stop still waiting you also must join real assurance you need a course called mcs mmade easy also you must get qualified in each element very expensive the government cannot make their mind up how they will help Pv funding from gov just been cut hope this helps COSYLOFT

 

[CES]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I got my MCS quality manual from EasyMCS and cant fault their service but sadly since forking out approx £1500 for everything required (Registration body, REAL, Training) I have yet to get a single job to enable me to register with MCS. I cannot see how the fees involved are justified. I considered fitting PV to my house to get MCS but the gov decided to mess about with the FIT rate.
They have messed up royally on this Green Deal. The fact they are asking advice from Training schools, Large Energy PLCs and registration bodies before they ask the guys who actually do the job in the real world shows how out of touch they are. It also displays the attitude towards the one man band, Big companies have a bigger voice and have millions to lobby with. They get heard, we dont. So the end result, we need more training, more registration and a quality manual and validation processes (that most one man bands don't have but big PLCs do). See the connections? Am I paranoid? Not at all I just see it how it is and for no one in power to be able to connect the dots shows either a lack of intelligence (therefore why are they in power?) or it maybe due to the fact that they are not on our board of directors/trustees or maybe they just don't care!. You decide.
I'm no longer involved with renewables unless I'm asked to install by a customer. I'm no longer a member of REAL or a Registration body as it was money poured down the drain. I wont be joining MCS until the fees and the one sided issues are addressed and I would urge people to carefully consider motives for people wanting you to join such schemes. the only people making money are the registration bodies, training schools etc.
Easy MCS are however a service that, if you require a quality manual are very good at what they do. (I thought Id better put that in as I don't feel agrieved by their services)

 

[markfxy]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I cant see how easy MCS can justify their prices when my local training center will do a one day course and a quality assurance manual for £180 the tutor is an NICEIC MCS inspector they give you a manual template and any help you require. Easy MCS are just adding to the cost of MCS which at the moment is a pointless exercise.

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I got my MCS quality manual from EasyMCS and cant fault their service but sadly since forking out approx £1500 for everything required (Registration body, REAL, Training) I have yet to get a single job to enable me to register with MCS. I cannot see how the fees involved are justified. I considered fitting PV to my house to get MCS but the gov decided to mess about with the FIT rate.
They have messed up royally on this Green Deal. The fact they are asking advice from Training schools, Large Energy PLCs and registration bodies before they ask the guys who actually do the job in the real world shows how out of touch they are. It also displays the attitude towards the one man band, Big companies have a bigger voice and have millions to lobby with. They get heard, we dont. So the end result, we need more training, more registration and a quality manual and validation processes (that most one man bands don't have but big PLCs do). See the connections? Am I paranoid? Not at all I just see it how it is and for no one in power to be able to connect the dots shows either a lack of intelligence (therefore why are they in power?) or it maybe due to the fact that they are not on our board of directors/trustees or maybe they just don't care!. You decide.
I'm no longer involved with renewables unless I'm asked to install by a customer. I'm no longer a member of REAL or a Registration body as it was money poured down the drain. I wont be joining MCS until the fees and the one sided issues are addressed and I would urge people to carefully consider motives for people wanting you to join such schemes. the only people making money are the registration bodies, training schools etc.
Easy MCS are however a service that, if you require a quality manual are very good at what they do. (I thought Id better put that in as I don't feel agrieved by their services)

CES

I'm glad that we where able to help you with achieving your certification, but I'm sorry that at present it has not been profitable for you. Two points though, you are well placed for the Green Deal if you keep the QMS running and the requirements for re assessment, if you haven't carried out an installation since your last assessment, have eased.

If you do find that you want to go back into renewables, and we can help, please give us a call.

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I cant see how easy MCS can justify their prices when my local training center will do a one day course and a quality assurance manual for £180 the tutor is an NICEIC MCS inspector they give you a manual template and any help you require. Easy MCS are just adding to the cost of MCS which at the moment is a pointless exercise.

Markfxy
Our services are not limited to the Quality Management System itself. A mentor will be assigned to you who will guide you through the complete process, from REAL membership, training requirements structural issues etc etc. We advise on the best assessment body for your circumstances and business plan and hold your hand all the way through to assessment. We will then assist with any Non Conformities that the assessor may raise and will not leave you until you have achieved certification.

You do not need to take a day off work and attend a course.

It is up to the individual which way they feel is best for them and there is no obligation to use our services. I often say when I'm speaking to a group of installers that the best Quality Management System is the one you write yourself from scratch. However, for speed and convenience, it may be that you would like help. There are options out there, but we often find that clients who have attended a 1 day course end up coming to us anyway.

 

[eaton]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

All good advice, personally I wouldn't bother until we know the government facts re rhi, green deal.

 

[unguided1]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

It seems to me that at the moment until the MCS get this MIS 3005 right there is not much point at all. I see that again a week or so ago they amended it again so we are now on MIS3005 issue 3.1 So anyone who has done a heat pump course in the last year ask yerself this, is the qualification you got still current? and worth the paper its printed on.

As for the RHI the government have already proved that they cannot afford to fund the FITS for PV hence them trying to cut the grant before the end of the consultation at the end of last year, so how long before the muppets start cutting the RHI?


The whole industry is in a complete mess and I cannot seeing it recovering from the debarcle

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

It seems to me that at the moment until the MCS get this MIS 3005 right there is not much point at all. I see that again a week or so ago they amended it again so we are now on MIS3005 issue 3.1 So anyone who has done a heat pump course in the last year ask yerself this, is the qualification you got still current? and worth the paper its printed on.

As for the RHI the government have already proved that they cannot afford to fund the FITS for PV hence them trying to cut the grant before the end of the consultation at the end of last year, so how long before the muppets start cutting the RHI?


The whole industry is in a complete mess and I cannot seeing it recovering from the debarcle

Unguided

The training course side should not be affected. The main changes from version 2 to 3 and then 3.1 is regards to the sizing of the system. I cannot disagree with you that we need more certainty and hopefully that will come shortly.

 

[eaton]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

Overall, I'd not bother to be honest, this isn't me trying to stifle competition but for me mcs etc is a waste at the minute. It's completely up in the air with no guarantees, only guarantee is you'll be out of pocket for a minimum of 4k. Easymcs are very good, but they will throw weight everywhere as they are a business selling a product which I completely appreciate but I'd personally ignore anything re mcs until some hard written facts are out

 

[Paul Barker]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I totally agree with eaton. Any small business best waste no further money on this scam. Until regulation and requirements are appropriate to the business type and size, the hurdles to be traversed, and the enormous costs, will never yeald a return. You will simply go deaper into debt. this is not a way out of the recession.

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I totally agree with eaton. Any small business best waste no further money on this scam. Until regulation and requirements are appropriate to the business type and size, the hurdles to be traversed, and the enormous costs, will never yeald a return. You will simply go deaper into debt. this is not a way out of the recession.

Eaton/Paul

I can understand your frustration, but one of the main complaints about MCS is that is reserved for the big boys. We do have many clients large and small that are installing Biomass, Solar Thermal and Heat Pumps and doing so profitably. The Quality Management side of things is being brought into many areas of work and it is not going to go away. As you can imagine, it would be so easy for unregulated companies to make outrageous claims about what their kit will provide for the client, MCS and REAL seek to keep the industry as clean as possible.

As I've said before Eaton, try and keep your system running, you know what you need to do and should things change and you want to step back in , it will be easier.

 

[eaton]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I'm in already, most f what I've done is fix solar and heat pumps installed terribly, all im saying is my money would of been better saved for 18 months than waiting for this fiasco, I appreciate you need us to survive but I wouldn't advise anyone to touch renewables unless you've got some booked in, last year I did 1 heat pump and 3 solar installs, I've got 1 heat pump booked in for march and 1 possible, for the outlay I'm still miles off, you can say all you like re others are fitting loads but I've found people lose interest as soon as they search the web re government grants, it's all screwed until they nail down some facts. It's the most fraudulently mis run thing I've ever been involved in with the only winners being the cert boards and the likes of easymcs, all who make quite easy money off us

 

[markfxy]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

" As you can imagine, it would be so easy for unregulated companies to make outrageous claims about what their kit will provide for the client, MCS and REAL seek to keep the industry as clean as possible"

MCS makes it possible for regulated companies to make outragageous claims and the general public are taken in because of said MCS registration.

 

[eaton]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

Like 2 local window company's who are mcs for pv!!!

 

[unguided1]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

still not MCS accredited, still signning off on the MCS site, and annoyed they have put the price up of signoffs, still got me loophole, stuff em

 

[ecowarm]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

Nice little loop hole you have there, hope you always have it mate

 

[jimk280]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

MCS is a nightmare for one man business. It is geared around larger companies and although I like to think that I'm good on my paperwork it has caused me real headaches. As a member with NAPIT I have found them unhelpful with annual audit with little assistance offered during assessment. So much so that I am now considering sacking MCS accreditation after spending so much time & effort to qualify for it.

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

MCS is a nightmare for one man business. It is geared around larger companies and although I like to think that I'm good on my paperwork it has caused me real headaches. As a member with NAPIT I have found them unhelpful with annual audit with little assistance offered during assessment. So much so that I am now considering sacking MCS accreditation after spending so much time & effort to qualify for it.

Jimk

If you need help with your annual audit, or any other aspect of MCS we offer an ongoing support service. This starts from £395 for a year for smaller companies.

 

[markfxy]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

I'll do it for £350:bucktooth:

 

[SimonG]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

Are things that slow on the MCS front that we need a 2 week special? Or is it just cynical me.

I'm afraid that with the governments help the general public is now not asking about renewables.
The closest I'm getting is to persuade unvented cylinder customers to go for a twin coil just in case.

 

[Puddle]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

Please keep on topic any other points members wish to raise ,please do so in another thread

Thank you

 

[EasyMCSLtd]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

What I don't understand is why you would all use a thread that is offering advice to people who actually WANT to go down the MCS route, to vent your frustration.

Easy MCS, the new HP standard has been delayed several times, do you have any info as to when the newest version comes into play and what the requirements are for it?

Dylan

Lots of confusion on the new Heat Pump Standard!

The new version 3.1 comes in on the 1st April, you must quote according to this standard from 1st March. You should not be using SAP anymore, and you may now find that your Manufacturer's software is no longer compliant, you should check with them on this. For sizing the system, you can use the spreadsheets on the MCS website, or the software which is now available on there.

The Microgeneration Certification Scheme - Decc Heat Pump Training Road Show

 

[SimonG]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

What I don't understand is why you would all use a thread that is offering advice to people who actually WANT to go down the MCS route, to vent your frustration.

Easy MCS, the new HP standard has been delayed several times, do you have any info as to when the newest version comes into play and what the requirements are for it?

Mate, not venting any frustrations, renewables is dead in the water at the minute. IMHO.

It's a forum open for debate.

 

[markfxy]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

Easy MCS you must get frustrated with plumbers on here not being taken in by this MCS nonsense what you should do is sign in with another user name to vent your frustration maybe call yourself Dylan1 :cowboy:

 

[matt25]

Re: 2 Weeks of MCS Accreditation Talk - Gaining MCS & Maintaining MCS - Expires March

Hi, I was wondering if someone could advise me on what changes I should make to our quality plan, I am currently mcs accredited for PV but planning to add Solar Thermal as a second technology. I have passed the necessary bpec exams so just the quality manual to adjust before we carry out our first install.

Any help or advice is most welcome! Thanks in advance, Matt