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1vincent

http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/forum1/post237922.html#237922Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:11 pm Post subject: Broken soil stackhttp://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/forum1/ignore.php?mode=add&username=1vincent&topic=28249 [DLMURL="http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/forum1/posting.php?mode=quote&p=237922"][/URL] http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/forum1/posting.php?mode=editpost&p=237922[/DLMURL]
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Hello this is my 1st post so please be nice.
At the weekend i went to repaint my soil stack outside.
All was going ok till i got to the branch part where the pipe from the wc comes out of the house into the branch on the stack i noticed it was a bit wet. I was sanding it down ready for painting and there was bits of cement coming off the collar and then i saw that the collor had a crack in it and i think the branch is clay after scraping some paint off it.
The pipe from the floor to the branch is cast iron and the branch is clay and then from there to the top of the house it is cast again.
Pipe out of wall is also clay.
What i would like to know is how do i replace branch part without disturbing the rest or will i have to replace the whole lot from floor to top of the house?.
I will get some photo's later to show.
Thanks for any advice.
Vince[/url]
 

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The branch is asbestos so be very careful and do not create dust when handling it. The vertical section to the vent appears to be asbestos also. Are you sure that the bottom section of the soil stack is cast iron and not asbestos too?

It is usually easier to replace the entire stack anyway as modern soil stacks are quick to erect and the old cast iron is proabably in a fragile state.

As it is all asbestos you sould really leave it to a tradesman but if you do decide to do it yourself, then do not use a saw as this will release asbestos fibres.

Be careful when removing it as it is heavy. You have to remove it a section at the time and lower to the ground on a rope. Always follow recognised standards for falls, termination points, bird cowls etc when erecting a new one.
 
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Thanks.
As we have had a very cold winter do you think that it leaked and the frost has got to it and cracked it?. I think so. The white overflow pipe is not connected to the cistern as it now has an internal overflow.
This is my dad's house and he has now told me that he has insurance for plumbing and drainage with Homeserve. Do you think this will be covered by the policy as i have heard bad thing about people with Homeserve.
Vince
 
It is quite possible that water has got into the spigot, frozen and caused the damage. It depends on how fresh looking the crack is.

Check your policy as if you aren't covered it would be cheaper to hire a local plumber to fix it.
 
another thing is those dual step ladders you are using.
they were banned in the 80's for being dangerous and prone to colapse.
be carefull//.
 
My dad Homeserve come out today and look.
The bloke said that Homeserve will do the work and reclaimthe cost from his insurance company. He is paying Homeserve for plumbing and drainage insurance and has been for 5 years.
The bloke put some stuff over the cracks, i thing rapid cement and said that is all he is allowed to do.
If i was to replace the soil stack how best should i go about doig this?.
Can i get a like for like branch like the one in the photo the same angle and where is the best place to buy the materials from please.
Vince
 
as said in previous posts best to replace whole lot, it would be much easier in the long run, but if you intend doing this yourself( wich i dont recommend) be VERY carefull of the asbestos fibres.
 
Its hard to get rid of the asbestos aswell you cant just dump it in your next door nighbours bin , contact your local council for advice.
 
You will have to chop out the branch as well. This will probably go inside where the WC is fastened so lift the WC off and store it carefully to be able to chisel out around the pipe and bricks to free the branch.
 
Thank you for all the replies.

WHIPES said that i will have to chop out the branch that may go into the house. If you look at the photo's the clay pipe out of the wall is ok, it's the bit in the middle of the cast iron soil stack that's cracked,which i was tols by the Homeserve person was a clay bracnch with cement fibres over the collar joins.
He also said that there looked like a crack on the branch from the collar to the verticle part of the branch but was not sure.
If WIPES says i have i chop out the pipe from inside the house i will hace a big problem as i the wc is closed coupled and tiled around the cistern and pipe going out of the house and laminate flooring around the base of the pan so not very easy at all is it.
Can i just leave the pipe out of the house there and replace the rest in plastic as it is in the photo's which i think will be easeir.
Vince
 
Thank you for all the replies.

WHIPES said that i will have to chop out the branch that may go into the house. If you look at the photo's the clay pipe out of the wall is ok, it's the bit in the middle of the cast iron soil stack that's cracked,which i was tols by the Homeserve person was a clay bracnch with cement fibres over the collar joins.
He also said that there looked like a crack on the branch from the collar to the verticle part of the branch but was not sure.
If WIPES says i have i chop out the pipe from inside the house i will hace a big problem as i the wc is closed coupled and tiled around the cistern and pipe going out of the house and laminate flooring around the base of the pan so not very easy at all is it.
Can i just leave the pipe out of the house there and replace the rest in plastic as it is in the photo's which i think will be easeir.
Vince

Hmmm looks like aspestos to me.
Yes you can join onto the existing pipe with a rubber fernco type coupler.however I think that the pipe could also be aspestos which can look like cast iron and you dont really want to be cutting into it.
Is it actually leaking? it be tempted to just repair it with some resin and glass fibre matting (P40 kit from Halfords) once this has set just paint it over with black paint.
TBH Vincent
 
It will not be a clay branch if it is above ground but will almost certainly be asbestos. As stated by VERY careful. Bodge repair as stated above may work for a while.

You will struggle to get the stack off without damaging the branch as it will be very brittle by now. May be possible to join with a rubber coupling. I would suggest getting a pro to do it.

Shouldn't be too hard to pull the WC off to get at the pipe. Do you have a couple of spare tiles?
 
Had a plumber pal have a look at the weekend.
He nearly fell off his ladder laughing when he saw what job the Homeserve chap did to it.
He said the cast iron was i a bad way will need replacing as it is loose in 2 places where the brackets go into the wall and he thinks that the weight of the stack is pushing on the branch and as there is already a crack there it wont be long before it is all cracked.
My mate wont do the work as he doesnt touch cast iron at all.
I will be doing the lot over Easter and what i would like to know is can you buy a 30/45 degree branch like the one i have in the photos as i will keep the pipe out of the wall and use a fernco connector from cast to plastic then a short bit to the branch and above and under the branch will be plastic
Also the cast at the mo goes into a plastic collar which is 4-6 inches above ground and then cemented in.Should i cut the cast 6 inches above that and use a fernco connector from plastic to cast or will i be best to take it all out and use plastic to clay/plastic to the underground part.
I will hire a cast pipe cutter as i will need to take the bits to the tip as i only have a small car.Has anybody used a pipe cutter before and will it be easier that way.
Sorry for the long post.
 
Id try leave a stub of at least 3" sticking out of the ground and connect the fernco onto that, if you start trying to remove stuff below that it might become a nightmare for you as if its clay drain below groung it is so easy to crack. dont bother with a mechanical pipe cutter, use a 9" angle grinder with a metal cutting wheel on it., remove the pipe in small sections starting from the top, if it is cast it is very very heavy stuff, Ive had one collapse because it was so rusty and I was being hasty in removing it, It could kill you at worst or damage your patio at best.
Also I know youve looked at it, and your mates looked at it and I dont mean to go on like a stuck record but just double check that ist isnt aspestos fibre reinforced cement, with paint on it looks identical to cast, you dont want to be zipping through that with an angle grinder.
 
Use a fridge magnet to check if it's cast iron or asbestos. Bear in mind different sections may be in different materials.
 
Thanks for the reply Blackcatgas.
I did use a magnet and the pipes are cast apart from the pipe out of the wall which is clay and the branch that is cracked i am not sure if it's clay or asbestos.
I think i will have to use pipe cutters at the bottom part of the soil pipe as i will not be able to get an angle grinder in there because of the gate/fence is 2/3 inches from the pipe.
I think using frenco coupling at the bottom is a good idea too. I will have to get the right sized angle branch for the clay pipe out of the wall to connect to soil pipe. Do you know how to measure this angle properly as i can't see any numbers on the old branch.
Vince
 
Clay pipes are only used underground. It will be asbestos.
 
Had a plumber pal have a look at the weekend.
He nearly fell off his ladder laughing when he saw what job the Homeserve chap did to it.
He said the cast iron was i a bad way will need replacing as it is loose in 2 places where the brackets go into the wall and he thinks that the weight of the stack is pushing on the branch and as there is already a crack there it wont be long before it is all cracked.
My mate wont do the work as he doesnt touch cast iron at all.
I will be doing the lot over Easter and what i would like to know is can you buy a 30/45 degree branch like the one i have in the photos as i will keep the pipe out of the wall and use a fernco connector from cast to plastic then a short bit to the branch and above and under the branch will be plastic
Also the cast at the mo goes into a plastic collar which is 4-6 inches above ground and then cemented in.Should i cut the cast 6 inches above that and use a fernco connector from plastic to cast or will i be best to take it all out and use plastic to clay/plastic to the underground part.
I will hire a cast pipe cutter as i will need to take the bits to the tip as i only have a small car.Has anybody used a pipe cutter before and will it be easier that way.
Sorry for the long post.

You have plastic comming out of the ground, connect to that.

When taking down the old stack, start at the top.

Don't start at the bottom with a pipe cutter, you'll have the whole lot down on your head!

The bend out the wall is either aspestos or could be lead I can't tell from the photo, you could connect to this as suggested but do it right and take out the cistern/pan and replace it all.

You dont have to worry about getting a fitting with the same angle then.

Eco
 
The stack below the branch is cast iron, the branch is asbestos and the pipe above the branch looks to be asbestos, what I would do in this case would be to leave the cast iron in place, renew the branch, the bent pan connector and the rest of the pipe work in PVC
 
In reply to ecowarm.
If WIPES says i have i chop out the pipe from inside the house i will have a big problem as i the wc is closed coupled and tiled around the cistern and pipe going out of the house and laminate flooring around the base of the pan so not very easy at all is it
+
Also the cast at the mo goes into a plastic collar which is 4-6 inches above ground and then cemented in.Should i cut the cast 6 inches above that and use a fernco connector from plastic to cast or will i be best to take it all out and use plastic to clay/plastic to the underground partWhat i mean is if i replace the pipe inside the WC will be hard as the pan has flooring around it and tiles around close coupled cistern so floor will have to come up and redo a few tiles plus the misses will say re-decorate the bathroom if your going to do all that mess.
As for the plastic collar,cast goes into collar at 4-6 inches off floor level and then cemented around cast in the collar that goes underground.
I don't know how the cast is joined in the collar(rubber connector/cast to clay) as it is cemented and i don't want to break the cement around the cast in case i do more damage.
I really want to leave the clay pipe as it is from the toilet and redo the whole stack in plastic.
Vince
 
Vince
can you post a picture of the plastic/cast connection at the bottom of the stack?

Plouasne
in a previous reply Vince said the cast pipe is in poor condition and the fixing are loose. it is better to replace the lot in my opinion.
Oh! and hope you feel better soon.
Eco
 
Ecowarm,

From looking at the first photo, it looks as if its cast iron from the branch down, the pipe rings above the branch look to be for asbestos pipe that's why I said leave the cast iron alone

If the OP does not want to disturb the w/c pan etc, he could cut back the asbestos bend use a PVC branch with a PVC to asbestos connector to connect to a new PVC branch, and then run the rest in PVC

And thanks for your thinking of me
 
Here is a photo of the cast soil pipe going into the collar and then into the ground.
I want to leave the clay bend that comes from the WC and then through the walls and then at the moment joins to the asbestos branch.All the rest i hope to renew.
This is why i need to get the angle of the new branch right matching the one already there now so there is a straight connection and not with any kinks in it.
Hope that makes sense, if not ask any questions you like.
Vince.
 

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From the looks of your last photo, the whole stack and possibly part of the drains should be scrapped and done again, including the asbestos bent pan connector, start again in PVC all the way

Reasons

1) Broken collar to the plastic, the part half in the ground, remove the broken concrete around the collar and excavate the ground around the collar to see what other surprises there are

2) The asbestos (it is asbestos, not clay no matter what someone else tells you), bent pan connector will be too large a diameter to pick up the plastic branch

3) The branch and pipework above the branch are all in asbestos
 
From the looks of your last photo, the whole stack and possibly part of the drains should be scrapped and done again, including the asbestos bent pan connector, start again in PVC all the way

Reasons

1) Broken collar to the plastic, the part half in the ground, remove the broken concrete around the collar and excavate the ground around the collar to see what other surprises there are

2) The asbestos (it is asbestos, not clay no matter what someone else tells you), bent pan connector will be too large a diameter to pick up the plastic branch

3) The branch and pipework above the branch are all in asbestos

I agree

Eco
 
The top of the clay spigot going into the ground is cracked which is probably indicitave of the condition of the rest of it. If it is cracked lower down then foul water is probably seeping out under the foundations and surrounding soil. The whole thing wants to come off, including the asbestos pipe to the WC from the branch, and any broken pipework below ground replaced. In any case it will probably be quicker and cheaper to replace the lot in PVC than it would be to try and mess on attempting to join existing parts together.

There appears to be a lump of asbestos sitting right at the front of the pipe which has probably dropped off somewhere further up.
 
Its Plastic coming out the ground. But I agree it is problably in poor condition under ground as well
 
My pal camera surveyed the undergroung drain from the manhole to the soil pipe which is about 3 metres long this week and he said all was ok with it.
The reason why the plastic spigot is cracked is because it has been wacked quite a lot by the wheely bins over the years as the pipe is near to the gate.
As for the soil pipe it is like this:
1-ground to branch is cast iron,
2-branch is asbestos,
3-bend from inside house goes into branch maybe asbestos or clay,
4-from branch upto the roof line/eaves is cast iron or a material that is metalic as a fridge magnet sticks to unlike the asbestos branch where it will not.
As in earlier posts by me i wanted to use a fernco connector from the bend connected to a short plastic pipe into a plastic branch and then above and below this all in plastic and leave 3/6 inches of cast at ground level and use another fernco to join to that, if thats no possible then plastic to plastic drain connector/adaptor.
Vince
 
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