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WaterTight

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Concealed type to be replaced with standard close-coupled. Replaced about 3 toilets in my time but so far been lucky enough not to have to change anything on WC's connection to soil pipe run. I may not have to on this either, if the gap between cistern and wall is only a little. But if by chance I do, how are these soil fittings jointed? Can they be pulled apart or would the pipe need to be cut?

Any other thoughts about possible perils or problems?

rsz_photo1150.jpgrsz_photo1149.jpg
 
by the looks of it you can take the 4" pipe out of the bend, cut it and chamfer the end and lube it up so it will go back into the bend(the bend has a rubber seal around it)

you may need a different pan connector, you can get various ones 14 degree, offset, straight if the centres are different.

looks like it will be quite an easy job imho

EDIT: You wont even need to chamfer it, just cut from the flat edge
 
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are you removing the boxing and putting back to wall? if you are fitting onto the boxing then it should be very straight forward and you may only need a extension.
 
All you need is an extended pan connector. The spigot end will go right into the plain 110mm pipe end or cut a new piece, chamfer the end, lubticate the socket on the soil pipe and voila you've got a connection!
Test it first though before boxing it in a few buckets of water.
 
Cheers guys. I'm putting new one back to wall and getting rid of boxing (well, as far as it will go - she mentioned the current one replaced a close coupled so might get lucky...)

So if the black 110mm pipe goes into the elbow and is just sealed by a rubber seal what's the white stuff around where they join? Is it prob silicone? If so maybe the seal was damaged? Apparently the guy who put the conceal WC and basin (one unit) in took a week to do it - so wonder if he's left me suprises..
 
I reckon the white stuff could be grease used to help ease on the elbow. The joint onto the elbow is definitely a push-fit so even if that is solvent weld it wont have welded the joints rubber seal onto the pipe.

It should be easy-peasy.

There you go, that's cursed it for you.
 
The top part of the elbow with the pan connector is solvent weld the other going into the pipe is a ring seal. The white stuff looks like glue to me! Personally I'd replace the bend. Remove it glue a loose ring seal socket onto the end of the pipe, fit a bend with one end a chamferred plain end, the other a ring seal socket. Fit the plain end into the pipe socket and the bend will now have a ring seal socket facing the right way up! Fit a cutting of pipe into that long enough to go through the hole in the partition to fit a pan connector to. Should only take about 10 minutes, but it's done right and you don't have to worry about the other guy's work.
 
looks to me as if the previous pan was on the wall so just pull the bend and pipe out of the white push fit thats poking through nthe side of the unit new bit of pipe and a bent pan connector
the long tailed bent pan cons will give you a bit of leaway to make the distance from the wall correct mcalpine actuallly do 2 different distances from the wall
id be wary of the flexi pan con route as ive found they can slip of when used with a tight radius
 
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If your taking the new close coupled toilet back to the wall you'll more than likely have to remove the bend and replace with a bent pan connector as you wouldn't have room to connect to the toilet with that bend left in.

it would make the toilet stick off the wall to far
 
The plot thickens!.....

system3 Thanks for your help. I think I followed the first part of what you said but not the second part...

The top part of the elbow with the pan connector is solvent weld the other going into the pipe is a ring seal. The white stuff looks like glue to me! Personally I'd replace the bend. Remove it glue a loose ring seal socket onto the end of the pipe, fit a bend with one end a chamferred plain end, the other a ring seal socket. Fit the plain end into the pipe socket

... when you said "replace the bend...remove it glue a loose ring seal socket onto the end of the pipe" did you mean to cut the pipe at this point:

rsz_photo1149b.jpg

(...since it's solvent welded to the grey elbow) or do you think I could just pull it out of the white connector here:

rsz_photo1149c.jpg

...bearing in mind there is what appears to be glue there as well...? I'd be worried of pulling the other end of some pipe concealed in wall that isn't glued...

And just to confirm...when you said "remove it glue a loose ring seal socket onto the end of the pipe, fit a bend with one end a chamferred plain end, the other a ring seal socket. Fit the plain end into the pipe socket"

...do you mean fit one of these (1) and then directly into that - one of these (2) :

(1) SH44.jpgSB409,11,12.jpg (2)


If so I'm with you there...(apart from how to get existing elbow off and new socket into the equation)

But then when you said..."and the bend will now have a ring seal socket facing the right way up! Fit a cutting of pipe into that long enough to go through the hole in the partition to fit a pan connector to" ...what do you mean? Surely facing forwards instead of up is already facing the right way? And as far as fitting pipe into (2) long enough to go through hole in partition...the new WC is being fitted without boxing so the pan can either go back to wall or as close as poss. So sorry I've lost you there. Don't suppose you could explain? Thanks for your help so far.


stevetheplumber Thanks for your help. So when you say...

looks to me as if the previous pan was on the wall so just pull the bend and pipe out of the white push fit thats poking through nthe side of the unit new bit of pipe and a bent pan connector
the long tailed bent pan cons will give you a bit of leaway to make the distance from the wall correct mcalpine actuallly do 2 different distances from the wall
id be wary of the flexi pan con route as ive found they can slip of when used with a tight radius

....presuming you mean the bit in the second photo with red arrow above, do you reckon the pipe will just pull out of white connector if it's been glued? and then do you mean just push in (or should I use solvent weld glue? or silicone?) a new length of 110mm soil pipe with a bent pant connector straight into that pipe?

Have I got that correct? Thanks..
 
Infact the more I think about the more it seems like this might be the plan...

Attempt to pull 110mm black soil pipe out from white push-fit fitting thing here:

rsz_photo1149c.jpg

Put in new section of 110mm soil pipe and into that fit a long necked bent pan connector.

The problems I forsee are 1) the pipe refusing to come out of the push-fit white connector. If so I guess I'll need to cut the black pipe and fit on a coupler and 2) the pan connector not being the right height in which case mucking about with a flexi...

Does that sound like the plan to go with to anyone else who fances a two-penneth?

To re-cap it's currently a low level concealed WC being replaced with a C/C WC to go back to wall or as close as poss...
 
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You can either cut the pipe or remove it from the white connector, the section of "black" coloured pipe might have enough slip for a loose collar if you cut it very carefully and square. If not take the whole thing out.
Both fittings are the correct ones but instead of using a slip collar such as in picture 1, use a loose collar that has one end solvent welded to the pipe with the other having a ring seal socket to take the bend. If do you use a slip collar as in picture 1, make sure you mark the slip on each end of the pipe so that you get even slip.
I thought that the pan was being moved further forward so a longer length of plastic isn't required. I suggested this to eliminate the extended pan connector.
You're well on the right track. My best advice to you is to just take your time, relax, think carefully what your're doing and don't rush, be thorough. Speed comes with experience, and even then it's not as important as doing the job correctly the first time. Call backs cost you money, so less haste more speed.
Just remember the last guy took a week to fit the pan so your customer won't be expecting lightning speed!
Any probs, package the whole lot up and send it up to Scotland! LOL

Happy fitting!
 
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Thanks everyone. Got it sorted in the end. Customer was impressed that I removed a conceal WC / basin unit, re-routed wastes and feeds and installed pedestal basin and C/C WC in less than a day considering how long the last guy took. The faff I had in the end wasn't with the soil connections (not wanting to tempt fate and get a callback but i did flush it about 10 times and no drips) but the floor was so out I had to pack wedges under pedestal and WC to make them level. Which worked fine except the WC was ever so (and i do mean ever so) slightly wobbly. You couldn't notice it when you sat on it, but if you kneeled facing it, grasped it with both hands and tried to force it to wobble there was a very very slight hint of one. I left like that thinking if they think it's wobbly I'll come back.

So anyone got any good tips for packing out one side of pan to make level but eliminating any hint of wobbliness?
 
Thanks everyone. Got it sorted in the end. Customer was impressed that I removed a conceal WC / basin unit, re-routed wastes and feeds and installed pedestal basin and C/C WC in less than a day considering how long the last guy took. The faff I had in the end wasn't with the soil connections (not wanting to tempt fate and get a callback but i did flush it about 10 times and no drips) but the floor was so out I had to pack wedges under pedestal and WC to make them level. Which worked fine except the WC was ever so (and i do mean ever so) slightly wobbly. You couldn't notice it when you sat on it, but if you kneeled facing it, grasped it with both hands and tried to force it to wobble there was a very very slight hint of one. I left like that thinking if they think it's wobbly I'll come back.

So anyone got any good tips for packing out one side of pan to make level but eliminating any hint of wobbliness?

that slight wobble will get worse with time, did you silicone around the bottom ? if so this will hold it solid
 
I did yeah. I pumped the gap full of silicone before leaving. Was already feeling bit better after semi-curing before I left. It was honestly somewhere between "I think there's a very, very, very slight wobble if you give it the beans" and "maybe it's my imagination.."
 
I did yeah. I pumped the gap full of silicone before leaving. Was already feeling bit better after semi-curing before I left. It was honestly somewhere between "I think there's a very, very, very slight wobble if you give it the beans" and "maybe it's my imagination.."

I've had a major wobble before on a building site, put some silicone on the bottom of pan slid it into place and let it dry overnight when I came back it was solid as a rock !! and thats even before the silicone guys done their thing
 
Thanks everyone. Got it sorted in the end./except the WC was ever so (and i do mean ever so) slightly wobbly. You couldn't notice it when you sat on it, but if you kneeled facing it, grasped it with both hands and tried to force it to wobble there was a very very slight hint of one.

icon7.png
icon7.png

What like when you are praying into it saying OH MY GOD never again!!!!!! after a seriously good night out] regards turnpin
 
So anyone got any good tips for packing out one side of pan to make level but eliminating any hint of wobbliness?

Silicone and a packer in to hold it until it sets or if you want to do it the old fasioned way, half a bucket of compo (sand cement).

It may have been the chipboard floor that was moving!
 
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Well done!

The only problem with silicon, cement etc. is that's it makes it harder to remove the pan in the future if need be for any reason.

I now only use Turbo Ultra 4" stainless steel screws and washers on a pan and it's rock solid fixed with these. Available from your local Poofix.
 
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They look good system. I'll add them to my shopping list. What do they just provide more bit and grips into the chipboard / wood?
 
They look good system. I'll add them to my shopping list. What do they just provide more bit and grips into the chipboard / wood?
They have razor sharp points (watch your fingers!) go into anything from rawlplugs to solid timber very easily and also with a power driver and they are extremely corrosion resistant, making the whole range both great for bathrooms/plumbing but outdoor ese as well. Plus cheaper in bulk than brass screws. They have superb grip too. Buy the trade pack, it's best value.
 
Nice one system, they're on my shopping list too. You should be on commisssion.
 
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