Replace 1970s bath tap head knobs

GaryTheGolfer · Feb 8, 2011

Hi everyone,

This a plea for a solution to avoid work (and expense).

The problems are the acrylic bath taps on a lovely(?) avocado 1970s bath. They have broken. The taps are both fine - it's just the acrylic tap knobs that are broken. [Photo attached]

My preferred solutions would be (in order of preference):
a) Replace acrylic tap (tops)
b) Fit a pair of tap "revivers"
c) Use modern splined tap top and convert (drill & file) the circular spline to a square fit
d) Don't know yet
e) Replace taps (meaning remove bath panel, bath, cut supply pipes, fit new taps, replace bath, replace tiles, reseal bath........)
f) Pay someone else to fix it.
g) Persuade the wife to use a wrench/socket set to turn the bath water on and off
h) Completely redo the bathroom (£££)

The acrylic tap tops fit the square shaft of the tap assembly. The tap shafts are approx 5/16" square and have no vertical grub screw. (I realise the whole world of taps has gone to some form of circular splines)

It seems that modern bath taps are 3/4" fitting.

The tap bodies have a screwthread fitting which is just under 40mm across (ie 1 1/2").

I cannot find anyone who has a pair of these tap tops with 5/16" square socket.
I cannot find anyone who has a tap reviver kit that has such a large thread.

I am very reluctant to opt for option e and f above. Don't even consider options G or H!

The easiest access to the pipework (without removing the bath) would be to make an access hole in the external wall!

This seems to be a headache for what should be the replacement of £1 worth of plastic.

Does anyone know where I can get a pair of these old tap knobs from? I've tried the local "civic amenity facilities" and they insist that even if I found scrap taps, taking them from the dump would amount to theft. (In the old days, you could just slip the guys a few bob and they would keep an eye out for you).

Help/suggestions?
Yours Desperately.

PS the wife has now banned me from stopping at skips! ;-)

plumber0808 · Feb 8, 2011

looks like new taps, maybe use option f and pay someone to make the problem go away.
why can you not access the taps?

GaryTheGolfer · Feb 8, 2011

plumber0808 said:
looks like new taps, maybe use option f and pay someone to make the problem go away.
why can you not access the taps?

Thanks for the quick reply. Option F sounds expensive. If I really considered spending £150ish on having someone else replacing taps on 35 year old bath, I suspect I would rip the whole bath out and redo the whole bathroom inc all the tiles.....and put that £150 towards the "new" bathroom. I am not overly keen on doing that much work though (It could interrupt the golf....).

The access (to change taps) is limited but do-able. The back of the taps are within 2" of the external wall.

I'm still living in hope that somewhere there is a supplier (about 200 pages deep in google search?) that has old tap tops or old tap revivers.

tamz · Feb 8, 2011

Couple of pair of cheap mole grips.
Paint them and make it a feature.

Or take a trip to a scrappies.

REDSAW · Feb 8, 2011

its not a wind up is it?.

a 10 minute job.]

go to wickes and get the reviver (head and valve inc) screw one out, assemble new head to suit £12 the pair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1.

tamz · Feb 8, 2011

Of course it isn't a wind up
Draper 35373 Self Grip Vice Set 4Pc: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools
Set for bath and basin. Excellent value

REDSAW · Feb 8, 2011

ah.. its a wind around.lol.

GaryTheGolfer · Feb 14, 2011

REDSAW said:
its not a wind up is it?.

a 10 minute job.]

go to wickes and get the reviver (head and valve inc) screw one out, assemble new head to suit £12 the pair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1.

The snag is the age of the bath taps ie the tap head (valves) are 1 1/2"/38mm threads (not the same size as modern 3/4" bath revivers). I have not been able to find a reviver with valves this large. So I'm still looking for the magic 10 minute solution.

I am now a bit more hopeful. I've found a product called "swop a top" from Oracstar (Owned by Robimatic; in turn owned by polypipe). These are just tap tops (no valve). They have a hexagonal collar that screws to the tap shaft (and can probably be drilled and filed to suit large square tap shaft). The hex collar fits into a matching recess in the new tap top. These are quite hard to find since a) they are relatively expensive and b) Are only of real use on really old taps (since modern taps take the cheap as chips revivers). I finally tracked down a web-based supplier. Today they have inadvertently sent me the acrylic version rather than the chrome version that I ordered.

Hope this info might help someone else that has the same problem as me.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply.

Gary

Bartdude · Feb 14, 2011

How much do you spend on playing golf?

You could stop being a cheapskate and get a plumber in

I'm sure with the right tools those taps could be removed.

dontknowitall · Feb 14, 2011

Bartdude said:
How much do you spend on playing golf?

You could stop being a cheapskate and get a plumber in I'm sure with the right tools those taps could be removed.

Hehe - that's why I became a plumber - couldn't afford to call one out!!

WaterTight · Feb 14, 2011

Bath taps are often one of the least fun plumbing jobs. Especially when they're old and access is poor. But if you can put a hand on the backnut you can get them off. Plumbers are remarkably good at applying large amounts of force while contorted into a funny position. Supply the taps and expect to pay £60-£80 ish, plus parts - and make it clear that you'd rather they take their time and not risk damaging the bath at any cost. The older they are the more stuck they're like to be. The taps that is, not the plumber.

WaterTight · Feb 14, 2011

Although having said that it's not a fun job - there are few feelings more satisfying that the back-nut that turns a fraction after 20 mins of sweat and tears.

GaryTheGolfer · Feb 14, 2011

Bartdude said:
How much do you spend on playing golf?

You could stop being a cheapskate and get a plumber in I'm sure with the right tools those taps could be removed.

You are probably right about "cheapskate" but I'm not a plumber and the cold tap pipework is demonstrably in the way of the hot tap pipework. I have gone to considerable length to explain the specific problem. My only current DIY solution I have apart from that noted above would be to take the bath out and replace some of the pipework and replace the taps.

I spend £45/month on golf membership and I'm too mean to pay a plumber the equivalent of 3 months pleasure (or is that frustration?) for what someone claims is only 10 minutes work ;-) If it were 10 minutes work, I would do it myself if I knew how OR I would gladly pay a local plumber. I suspect the average plumber knows just how awkward changing OLD bath taps can be....particularly when very closely sandwiched against the external wall.

If we can help each other save a few quid by sharing knowledge then so much the better.

PS Thanks for dontknowitall's comment!

WaterTight · Feb 14, 2011

Someone must have piped up the taps in the first place surely? How did they manage it?

Somewhere - out there - are the tap heads you need. Good luck on your journey.

GaryTheGolfer · Feb 14, 2011

Thank you for the encouragement. I can't help wondering why (some) plumbers insist on assembling things in a way that make it soooooooo difficult to repair (eg attached taps and trailing pipework to bath and then installing the bath and then joining the pipework at some convenient point.)

Having said that, I am tempted to drain down, cut pipework, fit 1/4 turn full-bore ball valves, cut/remove existing pipework to the taps (for slightly better access), remove taps, fit new taps with flexible hoses and rejoin to existing cut pipework. It is doable....just a bit of a pain for a non-plumber who wants a replacement tap top.

Thank you for you help.

REDSAW · Feb 14, 2011

i bet, if i needed to, i could get some from my local merchant.
no i am not talking about poxies like plumb center pts etc. i mean a real merchant who still stock avacado suites local to me.

mikegas · Feb 14, 2011

have you tried the bristan tap reviver kits?

WaterTight · Feb 14, 2011

i bet redsaw is right actually. google "plumbing merchants" in your area - ignore plumb centre etc.. phone up and describe what you've got. they may all say no but i bet at least one tells you where you can find them.

REDSAW · Feb 14, 2011

more than likely to be something like a bs5020 tap?.

tamz · Feb 14, 2011

GaryTheGolfer said:
I am tempted to drain down, cut pipework, fit 1/4 turn full-bore ball valves, cut/remove existing pipework to the taps (for slightly better access), remove taps, fit new taps with flexible hoses and rejoin to existing cut pipework. It is doable....just a bit of a pain for a non-plumber who wants a replacement tap top.

Did you read that in a book or learn it in a past life

GaryTheGolfer · Feb 14, 2011

WaterTight said:
i bet redsaw is right actually. google "plumbing merchants" in your area - ignore plumb centre etc.. phone up and describe what you've got. they may all say no but i bet at least one tells you where you can find them.

I did visit the best merchant (8 miles round trip). I then phoned or visited 7 other (fairly) local merchants/shops...excluding the Homebases of this world.... (but admittedly including Plumb Centre....in desperation). I phoned the manufacturer who doesn't sell to the public. They directed me to B&Q and gave me the B&Q part number. They no longer stock this manufacturer's part. I was eventually found someone who knew the appropriate product and directed me back to the very first merchant. I phoned them asking if they stocked or could order the specific Oracstar product (TC27). They told me YES they had it in stock. So I drove the 8 miles round trip again.....only to be told that they didn't stock and couldn't order it and that their assistant must have misunderstood when I requested an Oracstar TC27 Swop a Top Tap kit!!!! They apparently thought that description was met by a tap reviver kit.

Although no-one stocked anything suitable, they were all very helpful when pressed for who might sell/stock a suitable product....particularly the pukka merchants.

I did find one merchant that could order it in but their (wholesale?) supplier had a £180 minimum order policy.

It was only really by a bit of luck that I tripped over a suitable solution when browsing one of those very old-fashioned general hardware stores 18 miles away.

I have honestly tried to do the leg-work

.......All this for £1 worth of broken 1970s plastic!

Thanks for your support by the way!

dontknowitall · Feb 14, 2011

GaryTheGolfer said:
I did visit the best merchant (8 miles round trip)...

You lucky thing - I live 12 miles away from my closest merchant and 25 miles from the likes of B&Q, etc!

REDSAW · Feb 14, 2011

where do you live is the question!

elainec · Feb 25, 2011

Hello Garythegolfer. I just joined the forum specifically to tell you about tap heads, so I hope I am not too late. I had the same nightmare, I sent away for some from Notjusttaps.co.uk and their advertising was very misleading, needlesstosay, I had to send them back because their so called larger size was basin size, and it ended up costing me nearly as much in postage as the tap caps themselves, so dont bother to check there. I had the same with a local plumbcentre, said he had them on the phone and when I went around, it was a conversion set he was trying to sell.

I actually got some today, Oracstar Swop a top, acrylic, (I actually wanted chrome to match the basin taps) but gave up on that. Got them in my local Wilkinsons store for £8.50. They looked ideal for my 1980's bath taps. However, it wasnt as simple as I first thought. They give you an adaptor which goes on top of the existing spindle and that is held on by three grub screws. However, my spindle was too fat to go in the hole (about 1/2" depth) and I didnt want to try and shave down the spindle in case it all went pear-shaped. So I have spent all afternoon, with a drill and some metal bits, trying to enlarge this hole and with much perseverence and swearing, I did get there in the end. They are not a perfect fit in that they are a fraction shorter in depth so you can see a little of the base. I think I could have drilled a little more out but I got fed up walking up and down the stairs checking. I have taken a photo so you can see what I mean with the old taps in the middle, when you look down on them, this gap hardly notices.

I didnt think the image would appear so small.
So if you are prepared to try and drill out the hole, probably better than I could, (I am a female, afterall, and getting on in years, lol) asssuming your spindles are too big, I think these are the only ones you can use. There are no other bath size tap handles now, I am told that basin and bath taps these days should both be the same size.

There is a site I saw but they dont give any details but they are a lot more expensive, and for £8.50 I was prepared to give the oracstar ones a go (Oracstar are a good make, not a wilkos brand). These people also sell the oracstar and have the chrome I want but they are twice the price plus postage.

Good luck

REDSAW · Feb 25, 2011

The lengths some people go to to save a quid bedazzles me?.

I have a small stock as in picture of the same heads supplied and fitted for £40.lol.

Bartdude · Feb 25, 2011

REDSAW said:
The lengths some people go to to save a quid bedazzles me?

Spot on Redsaw,the mind boggles sometimes!

elainec · Feb 25, 2011

REDSAW said:
The lengths some people go to to save a quid bedazzles me?.

I have a small stock as in picture of the same heads supplied and fitted for £40.lol.

Not really a question of saving a quid, more to do with saving a lot of inconvenience and aggro, as firstly the taps work fine but the gate valve doesnt work in the airing cupboard and no isolating valve, so would mean draining the hot water down, getting a plumber in to replace with new taps, thus removing the fixed tongued and grooved bath panel, then would need to replace the basin taps again to match new taps on the bath, etc. After paying out £499 to British Gas two weeks ago for a power flush, it seemed stupid and an unnecessary expense to have all that done just because the taps were looking a bit old and not matching the tops of the basin taps, which they do now.

I hope that is a satisfactory explanation for you!

elainec · Feb 25, 2011

Well I guess some of us are better at d.i.y. than others. If my husband were still alive, he would have done it easily, would imagine nothing worse than having a useless man in the house.

Dannypipe · Feb 25, 2011

Garythegolfer spent the day driving round plumbers merchants by the sounds of it (visiting 8 in total)...plus all the extra time he's spent on the internet, and at B & Q...it must total up to over 8 hours of 'work' and where is he with it? Still at square one.

If he was on minimum wage, at 8 hours, he'd have earned enough to have a trained plumber change those taps and maybe enough left over to buy a pint down the pub to celebrate. Who cares if it only takes us half hour to do, ITS OUR JOB. If it was easy we wouldn't have one.

Trully false economy here.

REDSAW · Feb 25, 2011

well i did ask him where he lived so i could possibly sort him with exchange heads but he didnt reply?.

Dannypipe · Feb 25, 2011

You can take a horse to water Red....

GaryTheGolfer · Mar 1, 2011

Firstly thanks for making the effort of joining the forum and relating your similar tale. I also owe you an apology for not replying sooner to your pm but being retired means I am fully occupied....

I have now solved my problem....very much along the lines you described. I bought the chrome version of the "Swap a Top" from Choiceful.com. I paid the premium for the chrome version. When it came it the acrylic version (and was clearly marked as such on the packaging). I returned this for a refund as they no longer had stock of the chrome version. I am still waiting for this refund.

I tried to find an online source of the chrome version but failed. In the end I bought the acrylic version from an old style hardware shop in Clacton......you know the kind where you can buy 7 2" nails if that is what you need.

I already knew the (metal) adapter didn't fit directly so I drilled it out and then patiently filed the hole to a square to fit the tap shaft. I then fitted the adapter and secured it with the grub screws.

The (hexagonal) adapter fits inside the replacement tap top. The height of the adapter is about 1/2" but only about 1/8" of it seats into the tap top. The intention is that a securing screw is screwed vertically into the top of the tap shaft. My tap shafts dont have screws so my choice is to drill and tap a thread, glue the tap tops in place, or leave them free. I chose the latter option (at the moment).

The taps now work perfectly again (but you can pull the tap tops off....if you really want to).

I am disappointed that the journey has been so long but happy that the job is done a) by me and b) economically.

Thanks to everyone for the constructive comments (and even the others...you know who you are....)

elainec · Mar 1, 2011

Glad to hear you got it sorted, if not was going to suggest I sent you my old tap caps which were perfectly okay, but the chrome paint worn a bit inside the acrylic. I think you are wise to leave the taps so that can be pulled off, you can always warn a guest they come off if they want a bath otherwise could go into panic mode thinking they have busted something, ha ha! Glue wouldnt be a good idea if you need to change a washer.

REDSAW · Mar 1, 2011

I tried to find an online source of the chrome version but failed. In the end I bought the acrylic version from an old style hardware shop in Clacton......you know the kind where you can buy 7 2" nails if that is what you need.

classic, every one should know where there nearest one is.
open all hours.lol.

elainec · Mar 1, 2011

Youre right, wish I had one of those old shops in my area, instead of buying a whole bag of screws etc. when only needing a couple. I could do with some fork handles or is that four candles, LOL!

GaryTheGolfer

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