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Discuss Job cancelled this morning. Am I right? in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

armyash

Plumbers Arms member
Plumber
Gas Engineer
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2,653
Had a job booked in this morning, renew all rads in the property.

Downstairs rads are in solid floor so customer said just change rads and alter pipe to suit. Would be using extensions where possible but obviously made customer aware whatever happens won't look as good as bringing the pipes straight up. He was OK with this as he doesnt want to rip up the laminate and screed.

Bedroom rads upstairs being moved from behind doors to under windows. All t and g sheet flooring.

Customer said to me that he will lift the flooring, remove any boxing etc. I said no problem. (I'm aware I'd still be required to cut flooring as I go depending on what's going on underneath)

There has been 2 visits before today, first one was initial look at, discussions and measure up.

After giving a price I received a text saying, yes all OK, go ahead....but can I change 2 rads from singles to doubles, will that affect the price? I went back to double check and go through it all with him again and I said let me get an updated quote and get back to you. I altered the price slightly to reflect the change and customer still happy. Once again customer making clear he will do the flooring, lift and refix. Fine by me, I said to customer any issues let me know. I can pop in on the Friday evening (last night) to see what's under flooring and suggest other areas to cut up.

Spoke to customer yesterday, hadn't started lifting flooring. Anyway I'm now starting to think this is going to be pig of a job. I'm going to be downstairs hanging rads but will have to keep going upstairs to help with the flooring or check what's happening. I decided to ask my mate who is a plumber also if he wants to do the job with me, he said yes. We'd both be making the same money and by no means good money. I'd priced the job for me only it now means splitting the money.

I warned my mate it might be a bit of a nuicance job. The plumbing and rads easy but flooring might become an issue.

We turned up this morning, only 10-15minutes from home. Went in armed with tools, dust sheet and hose. He was quite eager for us to start. I said can I give my mate a walk round to show him what's what. No problem.

Go upstairs and flooring hasn't been touched. Floor above boiler position carpet has been pulled back, hammer and bars on floor. Flooring has all been nailed down customer has no tools to cut flooring up.

After a short discussion how we were expecting flooring to up and how the job has been priced for plumbing only customer asked about rescheduling. I said I'm busy so would have to be in 3 weeks time. He didn't look overly happy.

Anyway that was agreed. Job booked for 3 weeks time. Outside me and my mate were talking about it, the customer comes out and said what about if you just do downstairs today, I said no as that's 2 lots of draining, filling and flushing.

Left site, 10 minutes later phone call from customer do you want to come back I'm going to buy a circular saw you can do downstairs while I'm cutting the flooring. I said no I've already moved a job forward so it's too late. Bit of a porky Im sending invoices and sorting the van out. By time I get back and drain down we've lost 1.5 - 2hours. And it means calling my mate back out.

He said he is worried about cutting the floor up with kids about, I said that's perfectly understandable but the job was priced on the understanding the floor would be up (or some of it). I've now asked my mate to help out which cuts my money in half. Didn't say that but its a fact. He said he is going to make a start on the floor, I asked if he knows any carpenters that could help out. He said he does so will speak to them. I said another option is I give a new price which includes us sorting the flooring out.

The guy is a plasterer, so he knows his way around a house and looks at joists etc all the time. He said the flooring wouldn't be an issue. In hindsight I should have said no, I 'll do the flooring or find someone else.

I know I could have stayed today and worked with him and got the work done but it would have been a lot of hassle and a lot of extra work which wouldn't have been paid for, he has had about 3-4 weeks where I have said any issues let me know and I'll come round (at no extra cost like a mug) to advise on the flooring.

I have a feeling he will get the job done elsewhere as I think they had their hearts set on it being done today, he did apologise for wasting our time.

Its not a massive property, downstairs 3 rads 1 towel warmer, upstairs 4 rads, 2 towel warmers. The hardest part of the job would be the flooring and running the pipes.

I think I'm in the right, I usually bend over backwards to help people out but it's becoming a regular occurrence and I'm letting people get away with too much.
 
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The flooring could double the work

He’s not going to ring round and get it done today

Did you take a deposit/supply rads?
 
Personally I`d put his number in my phone under DNA (do not answer) unless desperate for work.
 
The flooring could double the work

He’s not going to ring round and get it done today

Did you take a deposit/supply rads?

He won't get it done today but he will find someone to do it sooner. No deposit as the merchants have said to me the rads can go back OK or be kept as stock. The customer has done plastering on a few jobs for me so wanted to keep things friendly. Won't happen again.

The flooring would be a lot of work especially for the bedrooms. We do flooring on our jobs so it's something we can do.
 
Imagine if he turned up to plaster a room but all the boards were in a pile on the floor.

I would say if he wants you do do it, price for the entire job and add a few quirky fir messsing you about
 
Imagine if he turned up to plaster a room but all the boards were in a pile on the floor.

I would say if he wants you do do it, price for the entire job and add a few quirky fir messsing you about

I was waiting for him to argue and that's exactly the point I would have made. If you priced to plaster a ceiling and you were told it'd be boarded and all ready to go so priced it and you turned up and it hadn't been boarded or was done wrong then it becomes a different job.
 
Price for the whole job bud you obviously cant rely on him ,one price take it or leave it then stick another £100 on for the hassle. Kop
 
Ash,

I don't want to sound harsh, so if it reads that way...appologies.

I think you're trying to be too accommodating to the customer.
You've offerred too much assisatance to this person already.

You should have insisted that you do the whole job from the beginning.

I understand you are trying to keep prices down, but at the end of the day you have done yourself and your mate out of a days work, due to the customer not having the job ready for you.

He probably expected you guys to offer to take the flooring up but would he offer to pay you extra at the end?

Don't be scared to price jobs for what they are worth.
 
Ash,

I don't want to sound harsh, so if it reads that way...appologies.

I think you're trying to be too accommodating to the customer.
You've offerred too much assisatance to this person already.

You should have insisted that you do the whole job from the beginning.

I understand you are trying to keep prices down, but at the end of the day you have done yourself and your mate out of a days work, due to the customer not having the job ready for you.

He probably expected you guys to offer to take the flooring up but would he offer to pay you extra at the end?

Don't be scared to price jobs for what they are worth.

Not harsh at all, I agree with you.

Being a fellow tradesman I wrongly expected him to know how things are and would have had us ready to go. I'm sending him over another price today which will increase the total a fair bit. Or he can have someone there to do the flooring as we do what we need. Sounds like a circus.

Luckily my mate is cool and he was only asked Friday afternoon to do the work so he hasn't been relying on the job for a while or put off other work to do it. Still. A mess around for him and I felt bad. I did offer to buy him breakfast after as a consolation.

I think you're right that he was expecting us to offer to do the flooring or just get on with it anyway. I made it clear to him that I didn't price in the flooring.

Will update. I don't expect to be going back.
 
I wouldn’t rely on most customers preparing a job for me (lifting floors etc) tbh, even customers who are in the building trade.
But if boards were supposed to be removed for me, I would have been sending texts last couple days asking what stage had he got to with all the boards removal and wouldn’t have gone to job without confirmation all was ready.
I also suspect the guy being a plasterer is not capable of lifting the boards, and him saying he is going to now buy a circular saw suggests that.
 
I wouldn’t rely on most customers preparing a job for me (lifting floors etc) tbh, even customers who are in the building trade.
But if boards were supposed to be removed for me, I would have been sending texts last couple days asking what stage had he got to with all the boards removal and wouldn’t have gone to job without confirmation all was ready.
I also suspect the guy being a plasterer is not capable of lifting the boards, and him saying he is going to now buy a circular saw suggests that.

He had 3 weeks minimum to make arrangements for the flooring to sorted. Whether it was doing himself or realising he couldn't do it and letting me know. 2 visits before the job started with discussions where he said the floor would be done.

I was booked to go Friday evening, spoke to him that afternoon and he said it's not done yet but will be doing and would have it done or be doing while we work downstairs. After arriving and seeing he hadn't started I had to decide to crack on and hope to be done by end of the weekend. (easy without worrying about the floor) or push the job back and say I'll do it in 3 weeks. I think the realisation that there is a lot more involved sorting the floor scared him. He should have let me know. I said I'm happy to pop back to show where I want the flooring up before this weekend when he was ready to do it.

I've always sorted the flooring on jobs, never been an issue. It's part of the job when doing heating.. He was adamant he was doing it, he even reiterated in text/email saying don't worry flooring will be all done.

He under estimated what needed doing and I was stupid to think all would be OK.
 
If I was to have taken the flooring up, it's then my responsibility to make sure it all goes down OK, that's the main reason I had to walk away yesterday. I had to find time to not only take it up but buy new flooring and replace/refix. Easily another half to full days work.
 
If I was to have taken the flooring up, it's then my responsibility to make sure it all goes down OK, that's the main reason I had to walk away yesterday. I had to find time to not only take it up but buy new flooring and replace/refix. Easily another half to full days work.
Definitely full days work according to your description as well as more money on materials which needs to be paid too. As @Best has said before, it is important to ask prior the start date if he removed the floor boards and if there everything is going ahead on Sunday morning.
 
Definitely full days work according to your description as well as more money on materials which needs to be paid too. As @Best has said before, it is important to ask prior the start date if he removed the floor boards and if there everything is going ahead on Sunday morning.

I couldn't have made it clearer what needs to be done, I was led to believe he knew what he was doing and as I didn't hear I assumed all was OK then found out it wasn't. I should have said straight off I'm doing the flooring.

A few texts back and forth this evening.

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I value my time enough that I'm delighted when a job gets cancelled at the last minute because then I can watch cartoons and eat lots of junk food.

I was honestly relieved. I'd done about 80 hours by the end of Friday last week, not had a day off for a couple of weeks. I was running on fumes and I didn't have the buzz for the job that I normally have. That's when mistakes happen.
 

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