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Let’s talk politics!!

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Harvest Fields

Harvest Fields

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Any views on today’s events with the PM
 
bleeding had enough .
We have played it all wrong from day 1 ,
The firms and businesses that we inport from within the EU WANT our business fact !!, they wont want to lay workers off and close down their firms/businesses etc
Tons more paperwork yes , but its only what happened before .
We are leaving , you are getting fec all .
IMO it will all fold in a few years without us anyway
 
As a business, Brexit will hurt both us & you, our customers, and we cannot escape from that. Many of the big corporates saw the UK as a bit of business haven previously but that confidence is now fading away. They are also now piling on the prices and literally cashing in on the uncertainty... bless 'em.

Even if we ended up staying, a lot of damage has been done to the UK because it has split people - families & friendships - so very badly. IMHO what we need to do is go back but of course we can't because you cannot unlearn what you didn't know!

The one thing we have learned is that we were ALL well and truly rogered up hill and down dale by privileged nonces who have ALL benefitted enormously at our expense - no change there then.

Like Town, I am heartily sick of hearing of it and all the biased views broadcast.

If anyone wants a laugh, rather cruely, Andy Serkis (Gollam) via the independant has done a spoof Theresa May. It's fantastic - prescious :eek::eek::eek:
 
All this carry on is on the verge of collapsing democracy.

Oftec advise their engineers not to discuss politics or religion.

I won't let it affect my relationship with my friends or family though.

I don't trust any politician, they're just a good example of the phrase power corrupts. All out to line their pockets and feck the little man.

Dump the lot of them and start again. But it would only be a matter of time before you're back to square one.
 
SimonG said:
All this carry on is on the verge of collapsing democracy.

Oftec advise their engineers not to discuss politics or religion.

I won't let it affect my relationship with my friends or family though.

I don't trust any politician, they're just a good example of the phrase power corrupts. All out to line their pockets and feck the little man.

Dump the lot of them and start again. But it would only be a matter of time before you're back to square one.
Click to expand...

The trouble with politics these days is that those in it see it now as a job not a vocation/calling. When it's done just for the money rather than the 'public good' or to try to make things better, it simply gets worse as we are witnessing.
 
YorkshireDave said:
As a business, Brexit will hurt both us & you, our customers, and we cannot escape from that. Many of the big corporates saw the UK as a bit of business haven previously but that confidence is now fading away. They are also now piling on the prices and literally cashing in on the uncertainty... bless 'em.

Even if we ended up staying, a lot of damage has been done to the UK because it has split people - families & friendships - so very badly. IMHO what we need to do is go back but of course we can't because you cannot unlearn what you didn't know!

The one thing we have learned is that we were ALL well and truly rogered up hill and down dale by privileged nonces who have ALL benefitted enormously at our expense - no change there then.

Like Town, I am heartily sick of hearing of it and all the biased views broadcast.

If anyone wants a laugh, rather cruely, Andy Serkis (Gollam) via the independant has done a spoof Theresa May. It's fantastic - prescious :eek::eek::eek:
Click to expand...
And if we stay in the EU it would make us weaker than if we had left with a no deal.
 
SimonG said:
All this carry on is on the verge of collapsing democracy.

Oftec advise their engineers not to discuss politics or religion.

I won't let it affect my relationship with my friends or family though.

I don't trust any politician, they're just a good example of the phrase power corrupts. All out to line their pockets and feck the little man.

Dump the lot of them and start again. But it would only be a matter of time before you're back to square one.
Click to expand...
I sent this to my family group this morning.

Can anyone please explain how Teresa May is about to go and fight against a vote of no confidence when she is just trying to do what the people want? If she loses then surely this just tells the whole of England that it doesn’t matter what we say or want and there is no point in voting as they will just do what they want anyway?
 
Harvest Fields said:
I sent this to my family group this morning.

Can anyone please explain how Teresa May is about to go and fight against a vote of no confidence when she is just trying to do what the people want? If she loses then surely this just tells the whole of England that it doesn’t matter what we say or want and there is no point in voting as they will just do what they want anyway?
Click to expand...
Are the other politicians saying someone else will get a better deal?
Did anyone know before this started that we couldn’t just leave without being shafted by the EU
 
The country voted to leave the EU. It was a close vote, but the out vote won.

There should be no back stabbing or trying to score political points. The countries democratically elected politicians should have come together to ensure we left in the best position possible.

But no. Conservatives are up their own arsed, that moron corby thinks it will get him to number 10 and the rest just want there 15 minutes of fame on the TV.

We are the laughing stock of the whole world.
 
scott_d said:
Are the other politicians saying someone else will get a better deal?
Did anyone know before this started that we couldn’t just leave without being shafted by the EU
Click to expand...
Don’t think they know what they want after the vote of no confidence, but they are moaning about the deal we are getting. If she loses tonight I believe government will do a u turn and we will not leave the EU making us weaker as a country and in a worse position. I expected us to get a bad deal. When does anyone get a good deal when leaving an organisation? Short turn hurt for a long term gain.
 
scott_d said:
Are the other politicians saying someone else will get a better deal?
Did anyone know before this started that we couldn’t just leave without being shafted by the EU
Click to expand...

Q1 - Of course/not (strike out whichever you fancy...)
It's just about Corbyn getting his 15 minutes of fame before he takes his time honoured turn of screwing things up but blaming others...

Q2 - No one knew anything as leaving was never really considered. It was all about Cameron reinforcing his popularity and understanding squat about how people were really feeling (nothing changes) or teh consequences of his 'can't lose' referendumb (1)...
 
YorkshireDave said:
Q1 - Of course/not (strike out whichever you fancy...)
It's just about Corbyn getting his 15 minutes of fame before he takes his time honoured turn of screwing things up but blaming others...

Q2 - No one knew anything as leaving was never really considered. It was all about Cameron reinforcing his popularity and understanding squat about how people were really feeling (nothing changes) or teh consequences of his 'can't lose' referendumb (1).
Click to expand...
Q2 ? Are you kidding me mate. They were stupid for putting it to a vote. It was only going to go one way.
 
SimonG said:
The country voted to leave the EU. It was a close vote, but the out vote won.

There should be no back stabbing or trying to score political points. The countries democratically elected politicians should have come together to ensure we left in the best position possible.

But no. Conservatives are up their own arsed, that moron corby thinks it will get him to number 10 and the rest just want there 15 minutes of fame on the TV.

We are the laughing stock of the whole world.
Click to expand...
A close vote. The only thing that kept remain in with a shout was Scotland and they didn’t want to be part of the uk at one point.
Have a look at how much blue is on this map within England alone

F98F8ACB-45B8-4D3A-B071-DD81EAFDA42A.png
 
Teresa May shouldn’t be representing the U.K. in my opinion.
She is too weak and she talks too much.
Needed somebody a bit more cunning to deal with the EU.

It also surely wouldn’t have been difficult for the government to put to everyone a simplified short paper of their proposals on Brexit.

Some viewpoints about the EU have said why wouldn’t they stick up for themselves.
But I say there is no reason the EU couldn’t have been more helpful in doing a deal with U.K. that is fair.
 
Best said:
Teresa May shouldn’t be representing the U.K. in my opinion.
She is too weak and she talks too much.
Needed somebody a bit more cunning to deal with the EU.

It also surely wouldn’t have been difficult for the government to put to everyone a simplified short paper of their proposals on Brexit.

Some viewpoints about the EU have said why wouldn’t they stick up for themselves.
But I say there is no reason the EU couldn’t have been more helpful in doing a deal with U.K. that is fair.
Click to expand...
Who else would you have had do the job mate? Why would the EU be helpful? We are one of the strongest parts of it and we want out.
 
Harvest Fields said:
Who else would you have had do the job mate? Why would the EU be helpful? We are one of the strongest parts of it and we want out.
Click to expand...

I honestly don’t see a UK politican who could do the PM job. None of them give me confidence in their ability or honesty.
I think the EU could have been helpful so to ensure we remained close partners, and us still funding the EU but to a lesser extent.
I think leaving the EU, but still retaining some of the laws and also rules about trading goods, while perhaps continuing to fund the EU at a much reduced amount, would be acceptable as a Brexit.
 
Best said:
I honestly don’t see a UK politican who could do the PM job. None of them give me confidence in their ability or honesty.
I think the EU could have been helpful so to ensure we remained close partners, and us still funding the EU but to a lesser extent.
I think leaving the EU, but still retaining some of the laws and also rules about trading goods, while perhaps continuing to fund the EU at a much reduced amount, would be acceptable as a Brexit.
Click to expand...
But that’s classed as cherry picking really. We were never going to be allowed to do that was we.
 
Harvest Fields said:
But that’s classed as cherry picking really. We were never going to be allowed to do that was we.
Click to expand...

It comes down to money loss for EU. We should have negotiated a deal with EU that we still paid substantial money to them but have our own laws.
Maybe a strong government would have pushed for a fairer compromise.
I am reluctantly now thinking a no deal is best.
 
Harvest Fields said:
Q2 ? Are you kidding me mate. They were stupid for putting it to a vote. It was only going to go one way.
Click to expand...

Oh I see ... Sorry H but my crystal ball has never worked. However, glad yours is fully functional :rolleyes:

I ain't goin' there bud 'cos it's only going to end one way - unhappiness.
As supposed grown ups, we should be reserving the right to differ in our extreme opinions but remain quietly certain that when I'm dead I'll come haunt you whatever the eventual outcome ;)
 
I think Theresa May is up against an impossible task trying to find a deal that will make everyone happy. She's a liar and arrogant and probably corrupt, but she's still not the main problem.

The problem is the referendum. We were not asked what we meant by Leave or Remain. Perhaps if we had been, then some of the myths on boths sides would have been exposed.

I voted Leave, unwillingly, because I believed that the EU was a neoliberal boys' club; discussing TTIP behind closed doors; because I believed that it was one of the reasons we had to open certain public services, such as the postal service, up to competition; because of the punitive way Greece was forced into an auterity budget that even the IMF said was not going to work; because I was fed up with the UK governments blaming everything they did that was unpopular on the EU; and because I felt that the English have never considered themselves Europeans and we have never been given a chance to vote on the EU as it has become; and because I remember a rightwing Danish politician saying he needed the UK's support to keep the socialists out of power in the EU. I did not accept that the EU can be reformed, but I do believe that the other members states are probably better off without us. I believed that leaving would harm our economy, but seeing as I do not agree that perpetual growth on a planet with dwindling resources is even desirable, and that my experience is that quality of life has more to do with how the internal resources of a nation are distributed than the total wealth of a nation, I didn't really mind.

I don't really care, though, if we leave or remain. To be honest, it'll make no difference so long as we seem to be heading for severe and irreversible climate change because we insist on burning every fossil fuel we can get our hands on so we never have to do any manual labour and can have everything new all the time.

In the Labour annual conference, the strategy agreed was to support the deal if it met Kier Starmer's six tests, which I don't think was humanly possible of any exit deal, negotiated by ANY party. Failing that, the strategy is to try to call for a general election, and failing that, a 'People's Vote', the argument being that when a trade union gets a deal with management that is worse than the current system, then it should put it to the vote and that, analogously, as a nation we should do the same. I'm not sure I was totally behind this, but at least I understand it.
 
Best said:
I honestly don’t see a UK politican who could do the PM job. None of them give me confidence in their ability or honesty.
I think the EU could have been helpful so to ensure we remained close partners, and us still funding the EU but to a lesser extent.
I think leaving the EU, but still retaining some of the laws and also rules about trading goods, while perhaps continuing to fund the EU at a much reduced amount, would be acceptable as a Brexit.
Click to expand...

Stood alone seriously concerns me. Whilst nothing of the EU was perfect there was real point and strength in the political alliances especially towards Putin and his aggressive Russia.

I asked a politics lecturer (a customer of mine) a few weeks before the vote why so many non-european countries were being courted by Europe cos I saw us paying for them and it miffed me.

His answer was starkly simple. The former USSR put all its weapons in outlying states. These states became independant with the breakdown of the USSR and have seriously struggled ever since. Without Europe to attract them (one of the major attractions being the UK) then these states would be forced back into the Russian fold which immediately gives Putin back control over their missiles.

Putin is the single biggest threat to world peace at present - now of course even worse with the carrot tw4t in the US. Europe must grow its influence in order to negate the Russian threat and without the UK as an integral part it is naturally less attractive. To a large extent this has frightened Europe which, IMHO, is one of the reasons they have taken a hard stance.

I also have two farmer friends. One in cereal & one in livestock. Both of these have now basically given up. With European subsidy ending, they can no longer make ends meet so are looking to simply sell up but no one wants farms...

What the hell tho, it's only our future... You lot will have to deal with it cos I'll be dead.
 
Best said:
It comes down to money loss for EU. We should have negotiated a deal with EU that we still paid substantial money to them but have our own laws.
Maybe a strong government would have pushed for a fairer compromise.
I am reluctantly now thinking a no deal is best.
Click to expand...
I think a no deal was always going to be best. However the EU had to be strong otherwise everyone would want to leave.
 
YorkshireDave said:
Oh I see . Sorry H but my crystal ball has never worked. However, glad yours is fully functional :rolleyes:

I ain't goin' there bud 'cos it's only going to end one way - unhappiness.
As supposed grown ups, we should be reserving the right to differ in our extreme opinions but remain quietly certain that when I'm dead I'll come haunt you whatever the eventual outcome ;)
Click to expand...
Not meant to offend or upset mate. Just an opinion. What I meant was they decided to have a vote on it. Then started talking about money and borders. Then all the people that have no idea about anything come out of the woodwork and end up voting.
 
Harvest Fields said:
Not meant to offend or upset mate. Just an opinion. What I meant was they decided to have a vote on it. Then started talking about money and borders. Then all the people that have no idea about anything come out of the woodwork and end up voting.
Click to expand...

For me what happened was that it became the only choice people had to express their unhappiness for anything and everything and nothing that politicians did (or didn't do) ever!

Paddy Ashdown summed it up for me post event. He talked about the result being indicative of the levels of frustration of people and the unsuitable nature of our political system to either recognise or do something about that fundemental unhappiness. He was right.

The one thing that everyone agrees with is that change is needed. However with our polarised system, all left or all right, nothing is ever going to change. FWIW, in my life I have realised the benefits of coalition - no matter who it is. One applies some form of 'check' on the other.

Look at Germany, the single most successful nation in the world since 1945. Not once since then has a single party ruled. They work together and just bloody sort things rather than pander to crowds and worrying about popularity contests. Rant off !
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Its amazing as what started as a common market in the early 70s has now caused such mayhem. All this we were lied to about leaving is ballcocks as well. We have been consistently lied to by consecutive govts over the EU since we joined in the 70s.

Im glad we are leaving its always been about France wanting a United States of Europe. Without a big hitter like us propping up the likes of Greece and co it will slowly stsrt to fail.
 
The funny thing is the same day I voted Leave I would happily have voted to join a USE, had it been along what I felt were the right lines.
 
I'm no fan of the waste or gravey train, but I voted remain due to the positives. For example:
GDPR. The whole point of GDPR is protecting individuals from the big companies like Amazon, Google, Tesco and many many others. Having a proper website now, the level of detail I can glean from the data collected genuinely frightens me and, believe me, we are not even on the 'real' ladder of available information.

These guys are harvesting this information and using it to drive sales and even desires. They can tell when women ovulate, they can tell when a woman is pregnant BEFORE she even knows! GDPR was conceived to protect us, genuinely protect us.

EN200
Yes its only a spec for taps, but at its heart is control of tap manufacturers who would exploit a lack of common legislation to drive sales that were not needed. Manus who literally wasted milions of tonnes of materials and energy usage feeding their profit habit - greed.

I could go on but already I sense the eyelids closing ;)

Europe is not perfect, not by a long long shot however without we are too unduly influenced by the USA and we all know how they are going to hell in a hand cart. Let's face it, we paid literally billions to them to 'help us' ( a massive loan) during the war (only finally paid off that debt around 10 years ago) and the nonces then wanted to be feighted as our savours for ripping us off. Oh, I forgot, that couldn't have happened we have a 'special' relationship... At least the Russians, Chinese et al don't stab you in the back!:rolleyes:
 
I didn't feel I understood it all enough to make an informed decision in 2016 and I'm only marginally clearer on it now. Luckily it appears my fellow countrymen suffer from no such inadequacies. There seems to be a greater stigma attached to not having a strong opinion on this topic than there does to acting like you should be taking over negotiations yourself.
 
What makes this so difficult is that it is not actually anything to do with the political left and right. There are Brexiteers and Remainers in both camps.
Each and every person with any interest or opinion on the subject will have their own personal view on it, for reasons of their own.
 
That's just it. It wasn't left or right it was in or out.
The deal on the table is poor. But corbyn has said he will vote against any deal. ????
This whole thing could have made us come out of it stronger as a nation.
I give up I really do.
Where's the deserted desert island when you need it?
 
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