Search the forum,

Discuss Radiator emitting strong odor when heat goes up in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

Messages
37
Greetings everyone,

I live in a small building. My unit has 1 bedroom. The bedroom radiator has been inoperable for over 10 years. The living room rad has operated just fine in that time. It is a cast iron base board radiator powered by hot water. Not steam.

This past summer a plumber was dispatched and he was able to turn on the bedroom radiator. This fixed the issue regarding not having heat. In the fall it began to radiate heat. There was no smell at that time. Very briefly for one day or so a faint smell was there. But it went away immediately.

Since the real cold began in December. The bedroom radiator emits a very strong odor. I contacted the plumber who got the rad working. He advised me to use compressed air. Or to let it burn through whatever had accumulated for 10 years of not functioning.

After 4 weeks. Where the smell did not get any less intense. I used a compressor and blew out that radiator. When I started forcing air through it. Silver foil and also black backing paper which was situated behind the silver foil started to come out. I also forced 2 large clouds of dust out on both ends of the rad.

After that one session. The smell became somewhat less in concentration. I decided to blow out the rest of the silver foil and black backing paper. This also reduced the concentration. I then scraped the bits left near the top.

So at that point looking into it visually. It is just wood back there. With some small spaces between the wood where drywall is seen. Other than that it is essentially empty.

The smell is greatly reduced. But is still off gassing something as it is not a clean smell in the bedroom.

I have spoken to a few people on this issue. Which made me think to turn to the forums to get some kind of help. As this matter is now ongoing and I have no way of isolating what the smell could be.

People have asked me if there are any leaks. Either from the rad or bleeder valve. I can confirm that there is no leak whatsoever. There is carpet in both the bedroom and living room area. The carpet is not too dark. So any leak, especially that black water running through the heating system in our small building would show up on the carpet. I also left paper around the pipes to see if anything leaked and it was dry.

The smell disappears when the heat is off. So it cannot be mold.

The very frustrating thing about this scenario is that the materials in both the bedroom and living room are identical. Both radiators were painted with the same oil based paint. Both living room and bedroom have the same carpet. The living room radiator does not emit any kind of smell whatsoever. And yet if I look inside with a flash light it has that silver foil and black backing paper. But does not smell at all.

Which brings me to the very heart of this problem. If both rooms have the same materials surrounding the radiators. And seem to be painted the same. Likely installed by the same people at the same time as radiators are identical. Meaning one is not any newer in terms of model or make.

For some unknown reason the bedroom radiator emits a strong odor when the heat goes up. It is much less now that I used the air compressor. But not enough to breathe it in. I do not know exactly what is in the air but it does not smell to me to be safe to inhale for prolonged periods of time.

I have had contact with one person from another site. He keeps saying there must be a chemical or pesticide used on the bedroom rad. That does not seem likely. Pesticide was not used. As for chemicals. That I am not certain about. Both rads look the same to me and have the same surrounding materials.

Now the bedroom rad has no silver foil or black backing paper inside. And I am trying to isolate what that smell could be. And then take some kind of action to lessen it. But I cannot understand what is heating up and emitting that smell?

Cannot be mold. Otherwise smell would not disappear with the heat off. Is not a leak, as that would show. Also a leak would smell even with the heat off. Carpet goes underneath the rad. But carpet is in the living room as well and no smell at all there.

Can wood or dry wall cause this sort of smell when heated?

How does a person go about isolating a smell? I cannot think of a logical way to approach this problem. I forced air through that rad thinking it would improve the smell. And it worked to reduce the concentration of the smell. But did not get rid of it. It is much less now but even at let's say 7% concentration, that room is not likely safe to sleep in.

Hence my turning to the forums in the hopes that someone with experience could point me in the right direction. As I have researched this endlessly. And am no closer to finding a solution.

Any feedback or assistance would be immensely appreciated. Thank you.
 
Dead rodent,

This is possible as there was a mouse that would come out of that rad from time to time.

If it is a dead rodent. What does one do to get rid of that smell?

Also, this smell has been here since December. Can a small mouse release this much smell under so much heat?

Wouldn't the intensity of heat burn through the mouse remains relatively quickly? Could one mouse cause a smell that has not abated in over 2 months?
 
Simple answer is yes they stink, you need to find the corpse may be more than one. In fact there is always more than one !!
 
The bedroom radiator has 2 pipes that come out of the floor. The right side of this radiator is where the mouse would come out from. But when I open the panel on both sides of the radiator. It is just solid concrete with holes for the pipes. How can I get down there to remove the dead rodents? There is a floor directly below me.

When I had the compressor I thought about blowing air into the holes around the pipes. But my concern was that I would move things and the smell would go to the living room which is the only room I can sleep in. I am currently living out of that living room. Have been for the last 2 months. Cannot sleep in the bedroom due to that smell.

How can I get to the dead mice/mouse if it is solid concrete and only small circle openings around the pipes? I guess I could blow compressed air the other direction. Away from the living room, and away from the bedroom. But without a place for it to leave or vent would I accomplish anything by blowing compressed air into the space beneath my floor? And secondly, would there not be a chance that I could blow the debris into the space below my living room rad and then that would be releasing a smell?

What can a person do, if it is solid concrete and no way to get to the mouse/mice? Is there something which can speed up the decomposition process?

Would calling a pro help with this kind of thing? And if so, would it be a pest control type of service or a heating/plumber?

I guess in theory if the pest control people have a camera that can look into holes. They would confirm whether there are mice or a mouse there. But how would they remove the dead mice/mouse? This would require a very thing type of vacuum or some other tool designed to pull from very small crevices and spaces.

Do such tools exist?

Can a dead mouse or mice smell for over 2 months? Last question. Is the smell from a dead mouse harmful to breathe? Meaning can I keep the door and the window open and sleep in that room until I look into pest control?

By the way, a massive thank you to jtsplumbing. So far you are the only person who has come up with something which is even remotely close to explaining the cause of this smell.
 
I would like to point something out as this may be relevant.

The smell which the bedroom radiator is releasing does not smell like something dead and rotting. It has more of a chemical smell to it.

Also, when I had the 2 end caps off, which exposed the pipes coming up and down through the floor below. I would try to smell where the scent was coming from and it was from the radiator. Not from the end points at the left and right sides where the pipes come up.

If the rodents were dead and being cooked. It would make sense that the smell would come up from the sides where the concrete opening are for the pipes that lead into the rad. But those openings did not smell. They produced no scent at all.

Only the radiator has a smell. Meaning the port holes at the top of the cast iron base board rad had the scent. No way the mouse died in the rad as it is too narrow for the mouse to walk in there. It is like a grill on the inside.

Can someone confirm or relay what a dead mouse smells like? Can this smell be similar to a chemical smell? Like burning paint? Or oil based paint that is off gassing?

Or is the smell of dead rodents very different from that?

Who would I contact in order to get this removed?

A friend recommended that I contact the city inspector/fire department as they have tools to measure the air quality and identify the source of the smell.

Thank you.
 
i dont think it is a dead rat, found this on a search "Unfortunately it may take three weeks or more to completely decompose. A professional may be contacted to break through and rebuild affected walls. This can be costly and not a viable option. Even after elimination of the source of dead rodent smell, the unsettling scent may linger for up to two weeks".
dont know if heating up would make a difference. i presume you are in USA, is it baseboard radiators, if so doesnt the cover lift of.
may be worth getting the plumber back.
 
Hi Gasmk1,

I think what you found makes perfect sense. As this burning smell has been here for almost 2 month now. Which would put it well past the timeline stated in the article. 3 weeks to decompose. Another 2 for the scent to leave. That's 5 weeks. This is now at around 7-8 weeks.

I am curious about what the fire department or city inspector can do to diagnose the smell. If it is oil based paint that is off gassing. As that is one possibility. The rad may have been painted by the previous owner and left off. Meaning it never cured. The bedroom rad has been inoperable for over 10 years. This could be related.

Again the smell is not of something dead or decomposing. But like a burning chemical or fume. Hard to describe the smell. It is not damp. It does not smell rotten. It smells like a burning smell of some kind. Not plastic. More like a paint of fume, or even like materials inside the rad are heating up and off gassing. But all that is left inside is wood. As I wrote earlier after I used the air compressor, I blew out all the silver foil and black backing paper. So it is just wood and a bit of dry wall and some metal brackets inside.

I will include some pics.

2018-01-31 11.49.30.jpg


2018-01-31 11.50.10.jpg


2018-01-31 11.50.41.jpg


2018-01-31 10.29.16.jpg
 
Pic 1 shows the sides where the pipe and bleeder valve are.

I put foil there, to block the mouse from coming in. The smell began before I put the tin foil around the pipes in the side brackets where the concrete holes are.

I imagine that if the smell was due to dead rodents, the smell would come up from the sides of the rad where the pipes come in. But that is not where the smell comes from but instead from the entire span of the rad.

There was no smell at all at the sides where the pipes come in.

The port holes I mentioned run along the top of the rad. That is where I smell this fume.

The last pic is a close up of the black backing paper that was directly behind the silver foil which lined the entire inside of the radiator. When I used compressed air. I blew out all of this material. For some reason I thought this could be causing the smell. And the intensity of the smell did drop significantly after all of this material came out. But did not disappear completely. Which is why I am still trying to figure out how to resolve this and get my bedroom back.

Sleeping and living out of my living room close to 7-8 weeks now. This has not been what I would categorize as enjoyable.

The great line "Winter of our discontent" certainly springs to mind. :)
 
Can you remove the entire panel for the length of the heater you will be amazed where rodents can get.
 
Yep, you need to get in there somehow or call the landlord (if renting) for rodents and smell. Incidentally I guess you're not writing to us from the UK, perhaps a forum nearer to home will be more familiar with this type of installation.

It might be possible to clean/dislodge behind the panel by rodding with the right equipment if there is room (flue cleaning kit).
 
Last edited:
jtsplumbing, I don't doubt that the mouse can get in there. There's just nothing there to eat or attract them. They were coming up that pipe and through the opening around it. Then into my living room, and then most likely the kitchen.

I wish I could take it apart but I live in a building and it would mean draining the entire system and having a plumber rip it out of the wall and then get a dry wall guy to fix it up.

One other person mentioned a heat gun. To increase the temperature significantly.

I wonder if this could help to speed up the off gassing?

jtsplumbing, can you confirm what does a dead mouse or mice smell like? Can they smell like burning paint or chemical? Or does it smell rotten like rotten flesh?
 
John you need to get that panel off asap just because they were running across the floor doesn't mean they were just coming up through floor, on a site seeing trip they are after food, to feed young, could be hundreds of them, Please nothing to attract them ! they may be nesting in there after all its nice and warm
 
JTSI hear what you are saying. Will have to talk to my building to see what can be done about getting that panel off. If they were nesting in the radiator grill, who knows what is in there.

You seem to be very experienced with this sort of thing. In the times that you have come across something like this, what do burned rodents smell like? Do they smell like burned paint? Or is the odor more like dead flesh or something rotting?

I have no point of references to gauge the scent or make any kind of comparison.
 
I live in Devon out in the country side so rodents pose a problem, they eat though pipes, Electric cables, infect they will eat almost anything , will burrow through almost anything brick walls ,wood, concrete , and will nest anywhere, so get that panel removed then at least it will eliminate the problem one way or another, if not rodents it could be something else under there causing the smell that will need sorting out.
 
JTS removing that panel may be difficult. But I will contact my building and explore that option.

One other person on another site recommended using a heat gun. Could this safely burn off whatever smell is lingering?

I have one specific question with regards to the silver foil and black backing paper that I blew out of the radiator. This lined the entire back part of the inside of that rad. Would the removal of this foil and black paper cause any functional damage to the radiator? Meaning that more heat will hit the wood and wall behind the rad now that that material has been removed.
 
It seem as we are going around in circles, taking another look at the photos that panel is NOT in the best condition signs of rust along the bottom, several layers of paint, those panels are designed to be removed, for some reason someone has run wood beading around it the black paper substance is a water proof layer against the timber to stop damp, (the silver foil is to reflect the heat) which could also be the cause of the smell, your going to have to bite the bullet and remove that panel to investigate what is going on behind, it could be a lot more serious than you think, using a heat gun is not going to do anything, REMOVE THE PANEL.
 
JTS I want to make sure we are on the same page here.

When you say to remove the panel you are referencing the metallic portion of the rad which heats up and emits heat? This is what you mean by panel?

Am I correct is saying that would require draining the entire system of water. And getting a plumber to remove/rip out the panel and then investigate?

Is that the correct understanding? If so, this may be a large expense. But I will take it up with my building.

JTS when you mentioned the silver foil and black paper which you clarified is a water barrier. You mentioned it could be the source of the smell. Which did you mean could be the source? The silver foil or the black water barrier?

Have you come across radiators where either this silver foil or the black water barrier gave off a smell?
 
1st No you wont need to drain the system just to remove the metal panel these should be made removable for cleaning etc. as they attract a lot of dirt, if its like our heaters of this type you will have aluminium fins on the pipes used to transmit the heat,
The black paper looking material is used to stop moisture penetrating the wood, its possible that you may have a small water leak of some kind behind the panel So its got to be removed to investigate the problem.
 
JTS the plumber who opened up the valve, told me that if the smell did not go away that the radiator would need to be ripped out, the system drained and then the dry wall person would have to come in and patch everything back up.

This one has two pipes. I think the pipe coming in is on the left, where the shut off valve is. And the pipe on the right where the pics above have the close up with the bleeder valve is the one going out.


If a plumber shut off the valve and bled that rad, could they take it out without having to drain the system? I'm not sure how else you could take it out without spilling that black water everywhere when it comes off.

The smell is not of something dead, but rather like a fume or burning smell. Something like paint or coating off gassing.

One of the things I researched was that the coating from the factory can off gas. One woman had this happen. But she had a cast iron rad, not cast iron base board rad that I have.

A friend recommended that I contact the Fire Department as they have equipment that can test the air and identify the smell. I am thinking of doing this next. As at least this would identify what that fume is.

JTS I don't believe it's a leak. With that black water running through the system. Even the smallest leak would have shown by now. Also please recall that when the heat is off, no smell at all. If it was leaking, there would be a smell even with the heat off. This smell comes and goes with the heat. And increases in intensity proportionate to the heat in the rad.

If it was rodents, it would smell like something dead and rotting.

As you noted there are a lot of layers of paint. That seems more related than rodents or a leak at this point.
 
John, B4 anything else it is important that the cover panel is removed, without doing that your not going to find the reason for the smell, I don't know how they install systems in the US, but if that was in the UK it would have service valves at each end, just because you can-not see signs of a leak doesn't mean there isn't one, REMOVE THE PANEL !!! until you do your only guessing at what is going on, if as you state the water in the system is black ! you need to get the heating system cleaned, Then a anti- corrosive added to the heating water as we do in the UK, Seems to me what you need is some English Plumbers in the US the sort out your systems.
 
John, B4 anything else it is important that the cover panel is removed, without doing that your not going to find the reason for the smell, I don't know how they install systems in the US, but if that was in the UK it would have service valves at each end, just because you can-not see signs of a leak doesn't mean there isn't one, REMOVE THE PANEL !!! until you do your only guessing at what is going on, if as you state the water in the system is black ! you need to get the heating system cleaned, Then a anti- corrosive added to the heating water as we do in the UK, Seems to me what you need is some English Plumbers in the US the sort out your systems.

a lot of their systems work slightly different to ours if you watch any US building programmes. A few American homes have radiators, but these are nearly always of the old-fashioned steam variety and not the newer hot water ones. American steam radiators are typically part of legacy systems in buildings constructed before 1940.
 
JTS there are no service valves on the either sides of this rad. There is a shut off valve on the left side. There is only a pipe coming out on the right. And bleeder valve also on the right.

I reside in Canada not the US.

To Gasmk1. This is hot water rad. Not steam. Look at the pics above. It is a cast iron base board rad. Built in the 50's.

Will have to follow up with my building to get the panel off. As previously stated. The heating guy who opened and got my rad working was very clear that they would need to drain the entire system and then rip out the rad. Dry wall person to follow in order to fix it all up. That is a lot of work and money.

All else aside not sure what other option I may have. I am trying to get in contact with fire department for them to come by and check the air quality and determine where the smell is coming from.

Thank you everyone, for your help and feedback. It is much appreciated.
 
you could kep costs down a little by removing the beading and dry wall yourself to make the removal of the panel easier for the plumber
 
could you not hire one of those remote cameras to lokk into th eradiator see if you can see anything
 
could you not hire one of those remote cameras to lokk into th eradiator see if you can see anything

Mate I don't know why he doesn't claim on house insurance, John wants the problem sorted But by the sounds he has no money to do it looking at the photos the beading was put on as a after thought and I keep telling him that he needs to remove the metal case in order to see what is going on behind it and just to do that he does not need to drain the system
 
Gentlemen, the reason I am reluctant to open up a job that may cost a few grand. Is because the smell has been getting less and less in intensity. This means that whatever is causing it. Is very slowly starting to wane. Why would I spend a few thousand dollars, rip something open. If it is the paint. And we know it's the paint, where if it was rodents as JTS pointed out. But never once confirmed the smell despite my asking several times. I had to get that from another source. If it was rodents. It would smell like a dead rotting thing. Which it does not.

If it was a leak. However small as JTS has also mentioned. It would show by now. In the carpet. Along some point near or under the rad.

There are no leaks. No stains. Smell disappears when the heat to the rad drops. A leak would produce a smell even with heat off. Which is not the case here.

I used an air compressor and blew out the silver foil and the black paper water barrier. This paper JTS did confirm and name as a water barrier. You guys don't think I would have noticed a mouse nest or mouse carcass when I was blowing out dust, foil and black paper?

I would have seen that as I spent many hours on this. It took many hours to get all that foil and black paper out.

Since that time. Since I emptied it out, the smell has been dropping steadily. At each relative temperature. At a low temp just after I blew it out. It dropped in smell.

When it went to -13 celcius, smell concentration jumped back up. But then within 4-5 days dropped dramatically. To where it is now. Which is a very mild smell. Almost not noticeable.

In the last 2.5 months. This is the best it has been.

The smell is not gone. But the fact that it is waning is a good indicator that I just need to let it burn off some more.

Why would I spend a large sum of money. Rip out a rad. Likely have to sand blast it to get rid of the coating that is off gassing. Put it back in. Hire a dry wall guy. This is a lot work and effort.

Why do all of this. When I can just leave it as it is, and let the heat slowly burn it off. Which is exactly what it has been doing.

The route you guys are advising is costly.

The route I am taking. Costs nothing. And will yield the same result.

There is no logical reason to rip something out and jump through all kinds of hoops when leaving it alone and waiting while it slowly but surely burns through the remaining scent is a cost free and viable option.

If the smell was not decreasing. Then the logical thing would be to follow the steps you gentlemen have recommended.

But thankfully it is waning. Very slowly. But consistently. If it spills into next winter and I have to crash on the sofa for another month of or so. That is not the end of the world.

Tinkering with a 70 year old radiator with pipework. And pretending that ripping it out carries no risk of creating other problems, as often happens when you tamper with old things. Well it is one thing to write about it and another to have to be in my shoes and deal with the consequences.

My choice, carries no consequences. No cost. Just some inconvenience on my part having to sleep on my sofa in the living room until the heat burns off the last 1-2% of what is left of that smell.

Hence my reluctance.

But I thank you all the same. As those are the correct steps to take if the smell was not disappearing or lessening. I would then have no choice but to take the steps recommended. Here there are signs of the smell slowly waning. Which tells me that I just need to be patient and let it take its course.
 
Gasmk1 I recall your post and that you mentioned it is not cost effective. I agree with that.

Either way, this is not a dead rodent smell. The smell would be consistent with something that died and is being burned or heated.

This smell is more like a fume as I have said numerous times. It is very likely that the people who were there prior to me. Painted the rad and never turned it on. As that is how I got it. In a off state.

It's been off for over 10 years. JTS did correctly observe that there are multiple layers of paint. That is what I smell. A paint fume. Something off gassing. Not rodents or dead flesh.

The important or key point is that it has been decreasing since I used the compressed air and blew out everything including the silver foil and black water barrier. Although I can't say for sure why those materials would produce any smell at all. The observable sequence is that the concentration of that smell dropped from 70-80%, down to like 20-30%. And has dropped more and more.

To my understanding. However slowly. The smell is staring to get weaker and weaker. Given that, I would not want to do what JTS keeps telling me to do regarding the panel. I would only do that work if the smell was not decreasing. Where that would be the only option at that point. But so far, thank God, the smell is getting less. Hopefully with some patience and luck it will disappear for good. If not by the end of this season due to insufficient heat. Then next winter when the -30 degrees celcius will come back and the rad can burn through whatever remains.

Again my sincere thanks to everyone who has taken the time to write and give advice. I made this decision based on observable facts. If it were otherwise, I would act on the advice given here. So it is much appreciated gentlemen. All the best.
 
Hi John sorry I couldn't diagnose the smell that your getting but that is quite difficult from 3000 miles away,
It just beggars belief that this heater has not worked for 10 years and nothing was done about it sooner,
By your description you are living in a small 1 bed apartment , and I am assuming that other similar apartment's are next to you ?
Do you have your own heating system or is it a communal one ?
Do you pay a maintenance charge ?
Who is responsible for the up-keep of the building ?
Do you own or rent this apartment ?
Has any repairs ever been done to your heating system ?
Where is your Boiler located ?
 
i dont think it is a dead rat, found this on a search "Unfortunately it may take three weeks or more to completely decompose. A professional may be contacted to break through and rebuild affected walls. This can be costly and not a viable option. Even after elimination of the source of dead rodent smell, the unsettling scent may linger for up to two weeks".
dont know if heating up would make a difference. i presume you are in USA, is it baseboard radiators, if so doesnt the cover lift of.
may be worth getting the plumber back.

my post re possibly not dead rodent
 
my post re possibly not dead rodent

Just cant understand why its took 10 years to sort out the heater ! and the guy sleeps in the lounge, small apartment with communal heating system maybe , if so someone must be libel for maintaining the system
 

Reply to Radiator emitting strong odor when heat goes up in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

Creating content since 2001. Untold Media.

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Back
Top
AdBlock Detected

We get it, advertisements are annoying!

Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.

I've Disabled AdBlock