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combi boilers choice

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whatsthenews

whatsthenews

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Can I jump in here rather than starting a new thread about the same thing? We were about to start getting quotes for a new combi (just moved into a house with a 10 yr old Vokera) and it's now packed up on us. Heat exchanger is bust so we're topping it up every 3 hrs.
Anyway. Quotes and boilers. Current one is on inside garage wall with the flue (with no supports) is running across the ceiling to the outside wall and gas pipe doing the same. Condensate pipe runs around the base of garage to outside where it just drips (persistantly ATM) onto the block paving. Flue is corroded externally. Amazing to think it has a Building reg cert and we were given a gas safety certificate before we bought the house.
So quotes to fit a new boiler, flu, magnetic filter ,flush etc and relocate boiler onto the outside garage wall and rectify condensate pipe .

This quote also includes removing a funny bit of bypass pipework under the bathroom rad' Radiator upstairs, where we only seem to have a 1 pipe system and a new wireless thermostat. Originally there was a back boiler in the house.

Baxi/main eco 30kw
£1778
5 years warranty

Potterton titanium 28kw
£1898
7 years warranty

Baxi platinum
£2300
10 years warranty

2nd quote includes all above the above except removing the bypass pipe under the bathroom radiator and the new wireless therm'

Ideal Logic Plus 30 with 10 year manufacturers
warranty £2,586
-Vaillant 832 with 10 year warranty additional £250
-Ideal Vogue c32, 12 Year warranty additional £230

Any thoughts please?
 
Are you planning on staying a while ?
 
You really need to expand. You have a golden opportunity to future proof your home.
So tell us loads of things...
1. how many bathrooms
2. how many bedrooms
3. how many showers
4. how many baths

do you have or want to have

The lifestyle of your gaff...is there someone there all day, or are you all working ..do you want to be green or do not care

are you on the gas main or on lpg kerosene etc.

what sort of house old, 60's or
modern

then you will get some answers

centralheatking
 
Hi and thanks for the replies.
Gas mains
Yes, someone here a lot and she's a cold fish.
Can't afford anything green like air source HP or solar but efifciency is important as lady of the house is retired so we have to look after the ££.
House is 1960's 3 bed semi, but it's the floorplan of the detached homes (think gable end facing the street style)so approx' 1100 sq ft. At the moment we have 4 rad's downstairs (hall, LR. DR,Kit) and plan to put one in the Utility once it's been insulated.
Only 1 bathroom which has an elec' shower. No bath. Toilet is sep' ATM.Plan on a bath (which we will v rarely use) and mains shower, plus poss' making the current loo into an en suite shower (elec' would do).
No cav' wall ins' but just upgraded loft insulation to 300 mm when we had new roof. New UPVC DG windows few weeks ago.

Apparently we have 2 pipes downstairs but only 1 up, but a double pipe under the rad' in the airing cupboard.
System seems unbalance as rad's downstairs get very hot very quickly, but often ones upstairs are barely warm but maybe that's because there's been a problem with the pressure.
 
It all comes down to what you want to pay. Personally I would avoid ideal, not that they're a bad boiler but there's alot of plastic inside them.
If your wanting to pay less then go with baxi, all brass components, quiet operation. You haven't mentioned been quoted for the 600 series, its not as expensive as the platinum and you get a 7 year warranty with it. Depending on required flow, the 630 or 635 would be ideal.
If your willing to pay that little extra then you won't go wrong with the vaillant 832, you won't find many installers who wouldn't recommend a vaillant.
 
Thanks Craig. So would it be fair to say that the 2nd quote has higher labour costs? We had a Baxi eco tec 28 in our last house but we were only there for 2 years. It was quite noisy, but not bothered about that in this case with boiler being in the garage. What's the difference between the Baxi main/eco and the Platinum? Is it just the warranty period? Assume that as nobody's mentioned the Potterton Titanium not worth discussing? Are Potterton part of Baxi? Obviously we would prefer not to pay £2800 for the Vaillant. Have a lot of other things to do like new kitchen (retro 1970-'80's Shcreiber with a Bosch Backwagen oven!) and bathrooms ,plastering etc etc.
 
I can't say what the differnece is in price between the quotes, you'd need to ask for a full breakdown to find that out.
The baxi/main eco is a different boiler to the platinum. Main is part of baxi but has a different range of boilers. The platinum is the same as the baxi duo tec only it has the 10 year guarantee instead of 7.
The 600 series is baxis newest range of boilers, more compact than the duo tec/platinum but shares most of the same components and is cheaper.
As far as im aware the poterton titanium is practically the same boiler as the duo tec only with a different badge.

Most boilers now will either have a stainless steel or aluminium heat ex. The duo tec/ platinum, 600 series and the poterton have stainless steel heat ex's
 
I would double check with the installer on what they are doing and what they are supplying. The reason I say that is £2300 for a platinum and moving it and sorting out a 1 pipe system upstairs is really cheap. I would be looking for around that just to move it with a filter and clock etc.

Also why are you moving the boiler? How much longer is this going to make your hot water run? If you have to extend your pipe 5 meters that would be an extra 3/4 of a litre of water every time you want hot water.

I'm a big fan of baxi myself and you can't go wrong with the platinum but as Chris said there is also the 600 which seems a good boiler I've fitted a few and all good so far. I'm not a big fan of vaillant I think they used to be great but I think them like Worcester are living off old reputation. Ideal I wouldn't touch at all, shocking customer service (round me at least) and sometimes trying to get hold of parts has been a pain. But if you ask several installers you will get all sorts of answers.
 
Thanks again everyone. I think that's clearer re the actual boilers.
Is a SS HE better than aluminium?

Millsy- moving the boiler because it's not on an outside wall or on the same wall as the gas meter, so gas pipe and flu go across ceiling, PRV pipe (is that correct?) and Condensate pipe go around the bottom of the garage including across /below the step up through the utility room door. As you come out of the utility room into the garage the boiler is right there on the wall. Will only be moving it about 2.4 m.

Neither of the quotes include sorting out the 1 pipe system upstairs.
A guy we had out to sort a leaky rad and replace a TRV explained how the 1 pipe affected the system, but then he realised that there were 2 pipes downstairs and said it might be OK and the first quote RGE said it would be worth putting the new boiler in, removing what he calls " a bypass pipe" from under the rad' in the old airing cupboard (dont' ask) and seeing how it goes with the rad's properly balance etc?
Would a photo of said pipe help?

Why have they installed the system on one pipe upstairs if that's not right? I think I understand that the old back boiler would have been a 1 pipe system, or is that not correct?
If it's not right and it should be 2 pipe, then how could whoever did it issue a Building reg's cert' or does that not cover pipework?

Also things like the flu isn't supported and the condensate pipe isn't going into a drain and looks as though it might be going uphill?

Apologies for all the questions.

This is the full quote for first RGE

Relocate boiler
Alter hot/cold/ heating flow and return
Alter gas pipe, pressure release and condensate pipe

Alter any electrical points needed
Full system power flush with system cleaner and inhibitors

Remove bypass pipe underneath rad in bathroom

Fit magnetic filtration to heating

Keep original (if you like the current one) or replace new wireless thermostat

Boiler and any materials needed supply and fit
 
I'd like a pic of this apparent bypass pipe. It may be the last radiator on the circuit before it loops back to the boiler, in which case isn't a bypass.
 
Rob Foster said:
uck , thats the bypass rad which is there if all the trvs close down. awfull pipework so ugly
like my wifes ...chk
Click to expand...

Ok, so if all the TRV's (we only have 3!) close down the hot water will just circulate through his radiator. Yes ugly, but it's in the old airing cupboard so out of sight. I don't know why they put a radiator in there.Well I do as it's useful, but not the normal thing to do.There's a radiator in the bathroom too. I knew that you always had one radiator without a TRV and it's usually in the bathroom, but do you always have all that pipework like that,or is it usually under the floor?

Please could someone explain the set up with a double pipe downstairs ( well, at least there are 2 under the DR radiator) and 1 up? Is the 1 pipe just coming off the flow pipe of the 2 and then going round upstairs radiators and back onto the return pipe of the 2?
 
To be honest it's the first I'm hearing of one, two pipes down one pipe up

I've come across 1 pipe and traditional systems.

Just can't see what you'd gain from having that so called 'bypass' on a rad with two lockshields

Judging the condition of that pipework looks like a system re pipe would be a safer option
 
whatsthenews said:
"Just can't see what you'd gain from having that so called 'bypass' on a rad with two lockshields"
Can you explain what you mean (in laymans terms") please Coby? Trying to educate myself-lol
Click to expand...

If you truly have a 1 pipe system then you should have bypasses on every single radiator. The reason for this is so if you turn 1 radiator off it does not turn the other radiators off as well.

I could be wrong on this as I've never piped up a 1 pipe system, I have worked on a fair few and ripped loads out but this was my understanding.

The older boys on here would be the better ones to answer your question.
 
Millsy 82 said:
If you truly have a 1 pipe system then you should have bypasses on every single radiator. The reason for this is so if you turn 1 radiator off it does not turn the other radiators off as well.

I could be wrong on this as I've never piped up a 1 pipe system, I have worked on a fair few and ripped loads out but this was my understanding.

The older boys on here would be the better ones to answer your question.
Click to expand...
Your right, should be one single pipe loop with branches off the each radiator. If you pipe in and out of each rad it would be very unbalanced and closing one rad off would cripple the system

I'm not an older boy though, I'm only 31, maybe that is old :(
 
whatsthenews said:
Can I jump in here rather than starting a new thread about the same thing? We were about to start getting quotes for a new combi (just moved into a house with a 10 yr old Vokera) and it's now packed up on us. Heat exchanger is bust so we're topping it up every 3 hrs.
Anyway. Quotes and boilers. Current one is on inside garage wall with the flue (with no supports) is running across the ceiling to the outside wall and gas pipe doing the same. Condensate pipe runs around the base of garage to outside where it just drips (persistantly ATM) onto the block paving. Flue is corroded externally. Amazing to think it has a Building reg cert and we were given a gas safety certificate before we bought the house.
So quotes to fit a new boiler, flu, magnetic filter ,flush etc and relocate boiler onto the outside garage wall and rectify condensate pipe .

This quote also includes removing a funny bit of bypass pipework under the bathroom rad' Radiator upstairs, where we only seem to have a 1 pipe system and a new wireless thermostat. Originally there was a back boiler in the house.

Baxi/main eco 30kw
£1778
5 years warranty

Potterton titanium 28kw
£1898
7 years warranty

Baxi platinum
£2300
10 years warranty

2nd quote includes all above the above except removing the bypass pipe under the bathroom radiator and the new wireless therm'

Ideal Logic Plus 30 with 10 year manufacturers
warranty £2,586
-Vaillant 832 with 10 year warranty additional £250
-Ideal Vogue c32, 12 Year warranty additional £230

Any thoughts please?
Click to expand...
Your old controls are unlikely to be boiler plus
 
scott_d said:
Is it compatible with Main and Potterton?
Click to expand...
It's compatible with these boilers

Screenshot_20190420-144457.png
 
Sorry couldn't be bother to read the entire thread but here is my opinion on a new boiler, if you are staying put-

Longest guarantee for the cheapest price.

Unless it's a vokera.
 
Millsy 82 said:
If you truly have a 1 pipe system then you should have bypasses on every single radiator. The reason for this is so if you turn 1 radiator off it does not turn the other radiators off as well.

I could be wrong on this as I've never piped up a 1 pipe system, I have worked on a fair few and ripped loads out but this was my understanding.

The older boys on here would be the better ones to answer your question.
Click to expand...

Got it. That's how I envisaged the pipework would be.

scott_d said:
It’s probably been part upgraded in the past
Click to expand...
Yes, probably when they removed the backboiler and installed the combi. All the rad's (apart from that one) look have new (er) copper pipework (that's visible anyway)

Craig Watson said:
Your right, should be one single pipe loop with branches off the each radiator. If you pipe in and out of each rad it would be very unbalanced and closing one rad off would cripple the system

I'm not an older boy though, I'm only 31, maybe that is old :(
Click to expand...
Makes sense and no, 31 isn't old,especially when you're the wrong side of 50

scott_d said:
Your old controls are unlikely to be boiler plus
Click to expand...

Boiler plus?
Need a new flue anyway as it's coroded on the underside externally

Jerry said:
Sorry couldn't be bother to read the entire thread but here is my opinion on a new boiler, if you are staying put-

Longest guarantee for the cheapest price.

Unless it's a vokera.
Click to expand...

We're going for the Potterton. Her for 5-10 years, but you know "the best laid plans"

Thanks everyone. Much appreciated.
 
Just an update. It's a 2 pipe to the kitchen and dining room radiator , and then 1 pipe from then on. What a mess. Also brass connectors on the underfloor gas pipe's to the hob and the gas fire (as was).
New boiler works well and he's done a very neat job. Even polished the copper pipes!
It's taking the radiators upstairs about 15 minutes to get somewhere between very warm and hot whereas you could cook bacon on the downstairs ones after about 7 minutes. This is an improvement from before but suppose the flush will have helped.
With a 2 pipe system, what should the difference be? We've had one in other houses but never really taken that much notice , plus the houses were about half the size.
Once we get the kitchen replaced the gas pipe to hob can be removed.
Seriously thinking about a re pipe. He's suggested ?microbore to the radiators. Piping in the wall and exiting behind the radiator.
We had this in our last house which was built in the late 90's and I liked it from a visual point of view as no nasty looking visible pipes.
Is it a good idea?
Quote is £1500, including TRV's to 6 radiators .
 
Personally steer clear of microbore. I get its usefulness and ease of routing but its a much better job to run 15mm (off of 22mm feeds) to the rads.

Less likely to block (I know you have just had it flushed but in time it's inevitable the system health maintenance will be skipped and you'll end up with sludge build up)

Id get a quote for 15mm/22mm pipework and see what the difference is. If you can stretch for the 15/22 then do it.

If you can only stretch to the microbore then it'll generally still be a big improvement on a one pipe system.

Especially as the flushing of the system with one pipe system present causes difficulties in getting a thorough clean (unless every rad on the one pipe circuit was removed and flushed through manually).
 
Craig Watson said:
Your right, should be one single pipe loop with branches off the each radiator. If you pipe in and out of each rad it would be very unbalanced and closing one rad off would cripple the system

I'm not an older boy though, I'm only 31, maybe that is old :(
Click to expand...

If your old I'm past it then as I'm 36 lol. It just seems now you very rarely come across them where as the old boys who are probably nearing retirement would of been installing them.
 
Mastermixlee said:
Personally steer clear of microbore. I get its usefulness and ease of routing but its a much better job to run 15mm (off of 22mm feeds) to the rads.

Less likely to block (I know you have just had it flushed but in time it's inevitable the system health maintenance will be skipped and you'll end up with sludge build up)

Id get a quote for 15mm/22mm pipework and see what the difference is. If you can stretch for the 15/22 then do it.

If you can only stretch to the microbore then it'll generally still be a big improvement on a one pipe system.

Especially as the flushing of the system with one pipe system present causes difficulties in getting a thorough clean (unless every rad on the one pipe circuit was removed and flushed through manually).
Click to expand...

Thanks Lee. Anyone else like to comment?
 
whatsthenews said:
Thanks Lee. Anyone else like to comment?
Click to expand...
Id agree with Lee and so will most other plumbers. Its used for speed and cost on newbuilds but it's not without its problem. Very easily effected by sludge build up. 22mm mains runs and 15mm copper drops to each rad would be my preferred choice.
 
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