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when and why did plumbers who work on heating systems decide they didn’t want to be called plumbers?
 
when and why did plumbers who work on heating systems decide they didn’t want to be called plumbers?
Maybe as a way to seperate gas registered plumbers from non gas registered plumbers? You do find some gas engineers are just that, great at boiler and heating installs but don't have a clue when it comes to the rest of the plumbing in the house.
 
Maybe so Craig,

That’s kind of my experience with competence, heating or gas engineer immediately makes me think career change cowboy. To me the craft is in pipework and installation.

I worked solely on heating systems the company I worked for had me down as a heating engineer. I did a 4 year apprenticeship in plumbing as well. I have never changed career but the company that I worked for only covered heating so that is why I was called a heating engineer.

I thought you were one of those that wanted to be a career change cowboys?
 
From our point of view - we have been established a very long time and have always used the title Plumbing and Heating Engineers - We are more than competent and experienced in the design, specification, installation and commissioning of all types of Heating and Hot water systems in all manner and all sizes of building, amongst a myriad of other related services.

There may be unworthy users of the title but we originals should never be confused with them under any circumstances.
 
I always worked on both plumbing and heating, but bulk of my work was full heating installs or heating system related work.
Reason why I always called myself a Heating Engineer is because I wasn’t going to allow cowboys to class themselves as better than me.

When a customer asks me am I heating guy/engineer, or just a plumber, I am hardly going to undersell myself.

Why should we use a lowly job description title like a plumber?
(Some people still think of a plumber as one of the least educated professions.)
 
I worked solely on heating systems the company I worked for had me down as a heating engineer. I did a 4 year apprenticeship in plumbing as well. I have never changed career but the company that I worked for only covered heating so that is why I was called a heating engineer.

I thought you were one of those that wanted to be a career change cowboys?

By discipline I've served and instrumentation apprenticeship, whilst working as an instrument technician I obtained a degree in electrical and control engineering going on to become a instrument/controls engineer. After 10 years designing, installing and commissioning systems in oil/gas/chemical/power industries I now largely work as a consultant/troubleshooter.

I'm in the process of setting up a pluming/heating company as the tales of woe from friends and family lead me to believe there is a big skills shortage locally. I guess you could call it being a career change cowboy but I'd happily go head to head with any gas safe "heating engineer" fixing/designing domestic heating systems.
 
Yes, because designing and calculating pipework for a bog basin bath and kitchen sink is rocket science compared to calculating heating, gas pipework... oh and pump sizing.

o_O

Sizing pipes based on look up tables/pumps on discharge curves is hardly rocket surgery.

Having trained people on behalf of various companies I'd be fairly confident I could teach a lay person of average intelligence to fault find the electrical/control side of a domestic heating system in one to two days.

On the other hand you could probably train a person to bend pipe and solder in a similar time but it would take them months if not years of practice to be ale to do it to a reasonable standard.
 
Having trained people on behalf of various companies I'd be fairly confident I could teach a lay person of average intelligence to fault find the electrical/control side of a domestic heating system in one to two days.

I’m sure you could, but whilst they’re in comfortable surroundings sucking on the teachers teet and everything is fresh.... the world is there oyster. Now try doing the same after a hard days slog, in a smoke filled house and sixty four kids running about and screaming, whilst mum n dad are arguing.

And with no data to determine pin out’s on controls
 
Sizing pipes based on look up tables/pumps on discharge curves is hardly rocket surgery.

And that’s not quite true neither, you’ve got to be able to work out the first answer to be able the twelfth. It’s not a five minute task, working out a pump size.

And that was a tongue in cheek reply, but I’m sure you get what I mean.
 
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By discipline I've served and instrumentation apprenticeship, whilst working as an instrument technician I obtained a degree in electrical and control engineering going on to become a instrument/controls engineer. After 10 years designing, installing and commissioning systems in oil/gas/chemical/power industries I now largely work as a consultant/troubleshooter.

I'm in the process of setting up a pluming/heating company as the tales of woe from friends and family lead me to believe there is a big skills shortage locally. I guess you could call it being a career change cowboy but I'd happily go head to head with any gas safe "heating engineer" fixing/designing domestic heating systems.

If your that good and that competent why are you here asking questions surely you should be building your new bus I was that will beat british gas and Pimlico.
 
I'd happily go head to head with any gas safe "heating engineer" fixing/designing domestic heating systems.

And do you really think the trade is just about heating controls?

So you maybe a whizz with a multimeter! How do you know the fault is with the control? What experience do you have to eliminate that the fault doesn’t lay in the water side of things of a heating system.
 
I don't think that's fair as we never stop learning and there is nothing wrong with asking your peers a question even if you think you already know the answer.

He quite obviously thinks himself better than us, he seems to think someone who calls themselves a heating engineer a career change cowboy yet he is planning to change career himself he is also asking the very same "cowboys" that he seems to think he knows more than and is already better than questions about the job that he can apparently teach someone in a day.

Not sure what part of the country he works in but round me it's a very small plumb industry and people who are quite frankly arrogant do not last very long.
 
Well, since you put it like that you maybe have a valid point there. Personally I have always been rather proud to call myself a plumber. Just mentioning the fact usually results in a flurry of requests for work to be done too. I do very little plumbing work outside of my day to day job but it's nice to know it's there if I need it.

I'm certainly not ashamed to be a plumber and happily tell people who ask.
 
And do you really think the trade is just about heating controls?

So you maybe a whizz with a multimeter! How do you know the fault is with the control? What experience do you have to eliminate that the fault doesn’t lay in the water side of things of a heating system.

In the world outside heating systems the term controls covers everything from PCB's and controllers, to pumps, heaters/burners, actuators and valves. Heating systems are simple example of what instrument technicians routinely work on.
 
Well, since you put it like that you maybe have a valid point there. Personally I have always been rather proud to call myself a plumber. Just mentioning the fact usually results in a flurry of requests for work to be done too. I do very little plumbing work outside of my day to day job but it's nice to know it's there if I need it.

I'm certainly not ashamed to be a plumber and happily tell people who ask.

There are trades and there are crafts, I'd certainly say plumbing is the latter. In these days when most people cant fix a flat tire you should be proud of having a great skill like that.
 
He quite obviously thinks himself better than us, he seems to think someone who calls themselves a heating engineer a career change cowboy yet he is planning to change career himself he is also asking the very same "cowboys" that he seems to think he knows more than and is already better than questions about the job that he can apparently teach someone in a day.

Not sure what part of the country he works in but round me it's a very small plumb industry and people who are quite frankly arrogant do not last very long.

Where have I said I'm better than anyone? I'm simply asking why those with gas qualifications look down on those without?
 
Well, since you put it like that you maybe have a valid point there. Personally I have always been rather proud to call myself a plumber. Just mentioning the fact usually results in a flurry of requests for work to be done too. I do very little plumbing work outside of my day to day job but it's nice to know it's there if I need it.

I'm certainly not ashamed to be a plumber and happily tell people who ask.

I am quite happy to call myself a plumber as well even though I do oil,gas and Lpg as well. I trained for 4 years on pants money and have since worked hard to make myself the best I can be.

I get what you say about always learning as that is part of the reason I'm on here to get other people's views and in turn I pass some of my knowledge on as well.
 
If your that good and that competent why are you here asking questions surely you should be building your new bus I was that will beat british gas and Pimlico.

We all still ask questions
 
Where have I said I'm better than anyone? I'm simply asking why those with gas qualifications look down on those without?

Pure and simple elitism, a bit like the way your putting yourself across. Oh ‘ I’m degree trained and because of what I do.... I’ll Sod doing domestic stuff.
 
Pure and simple elitism, a bit like the way your putting yourself across. Oh ‘ I’m degree trained and because of what I do.. I’ll **** doing domestic stuff.
Sort of like what you said about plumbers then

Yes, because designing and calculating pipework for a bog basin bath and kitchen sink is rocket science compared to calculating heating, gas pipework... oh and pump sizing.

;)o_O
 
Sort of like what you said about plumbers then



;)o_O

Unfortunately Craig, I’m capable of doing plumbing heating and gas. I can be tracing a gas leak in the morning, changing a mid position valve after lunch and finish off unblocking a loo getting covered in Rubbish and the following day... fitting a bathroom.
I’m like a lot on here, who are multi trained.

I can be a plumbing snob one minute and gas snob the next. I think there’s some on here like yourself.. just have an inferiority complex and see the gas safe/ Oftec as the golden chalice.

I’ve earned my stripes and need to prove nothing.
 
We all still ask questions

That we do. But I wouldn't have the cheek to call someone a cowboy that I've just asked questions to. I also wouldn't have the cheek to say I could teach someone a job in a day what some of us have spent years training and retraining to do.
 
That we do. But I wouldn't have the cheek to call someone a cowboy that I've just asked questions to. I also wouldn't have the cheek to say I could teach someone a job in a day what some of us have spent years training and retraining to do.

Well said millsy.
 
I don’t think you’re doing yourself any favours belittling people and then when you get a reply you don’t like (but must have thought you’d get) you state all your qualifications and experience. As much as to say “I’m better than you so don’t question me”.
I’m one of those career change cowboys but maybe I should have just gone and signed on the dole and let people like you pay me to live.
Or maybe your just trying to get your number of posts up. This ain’t a rant, just a measured reply.
 
Pure and simple elitism, a bit like the way your putting yourself across. Oh ‘ I’m degree trained and because of what I do.. I’ll **** doing domestic stuff.

You asked if I considered myself a CCC, I just pointed out it’s not really a career change. Heating is a very small subset of instrument technicians work on on a daily basis without making such a huge song and dance about it.
 
I don’t think you’re doing yourself any favours belittling people and then when you get a reply you don’t like (but must have thought you’d get) you state all your qualifications and experience. As much as to say “I’m better than you so don’t question me”.
I’m one of those career change cowboys but maybe I should have just gone and signed on the dole and let people like you pay me to live.
Or maybe your just trying to get your number of posts up. This ain’t a rant, just a measured reply.

I’m simply asking why there’s so much snobbery/elitism in what’s essentially one trade. Which seems especially strange given it takes years to get to be competent plumber yet you can be qualified as gas safe with 8 weeks training.
 
I can be a plumbing snob one minute and gas snob the next. I think there’s some on here like yourself.. just have an inferiority complex and see the gas safe/ Oftec as the golden chalice.
Not entirely sure what you mean by this.
 
That we do. But I wouldn't have the cheek to call someone a cowboy that I've just asked questions to. I also wouldn't have the cheek to say I could teach someone a job in a day what some of us have spent years training and retraining to do.

I’ve trained dozens if not hundreds of people over the years to maintain/fault find on systems of of similar levels of complexity to a domestic heating system in a few days. On the other hand I’ve never seen anyone turn out decent pipework that’s done a 2 day course. If you’re fitting a bathroom say there are 100 skills you need to master that takes years.

No where did I say that all people working on gas systems were cowboys. Just that I aspirate the term “heating engineer” much more with someone in a Homeserv t-shirt that was working in a sports shop 3 weeks ago much more than a 3rd generation with 20 years of experience.
 
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