New builds zone valves on combi

[Ricardo Napoli]

Hi everyone, if anybody is out there that can give a little help would be great. I’m going from domestic plumbing into house bashing end of the month now I’ve been told the heating on new builds is zoned off even on combi boilers. Could anybody just shine some light on how to pipe this system up. The zone valves would be in a cupboard upstairs. Thanks.

 

[Harvest Fields]

As far as I am aware it is on above a certain square footage?

 

[Ricardo Napoli]

As far as I am aware it is on above a certain square footage?

Hey thanks for the reply, I wouldn’t know as I haven’t started yet just I got speaking briefly to a guy about it and he said down stairs and upstairs now have to be zoned off. If you are right about the square footage how would this system be piped!?

 

[Sharp Point]

As far as I am aware it is on above a certain square footage?

I’ve done some small 2 bed houses recently( new builds) and initially wasn’t to sure myself, so I contacted the architect and he says now ‘All properties regardless of size must have upstairs/ downstairs zoned’

 

[Aire]

House size upto 150m2 only require trvs, house size over 150m2 require at least 2 heating zones

 

[Riley]

What don’t you understand about piping it?? Surely you’ve come across s plan arrangements doing domestic plumbing? It’s very similar

 

[Sharp Point]

Second paragraph down, ‘every home must be divided into at least two zones’

 

[Aire]

That's 2010 @bogrodder, they changed it in 2014

 

[Murdoch]

I thought it had been changed again in 2018!

http://www.beama.org.uk/asset/91E44EAD-9C1D-4200-B8A0A292286AA5F7/

 

[Aire]

I thought it had been changed again in 2018!

That was only boiler plus wasn't it?

 

[Murdoch]

That was only boiler plus wasn't it?

not sure tbh - I'm a spark and I thought the changes included the controls and other bits !

 

[Chuck]

Hi everyone, if anybody is out there that can give a little help would be great. I’m going from domestic plumbing into house bashing end of the month now I’ve been told the heating on new builds is zoned off even on combi boilers. Could anybody just shine some light on how to pipe this system up. The zone valves would be in a cupboard upstairs. Thanks.

Do you have any qualifications as a heating engineer? The fact you don't seem to be familar with the current Building Regulations and are asking an internet forum such a general question means you are taking on a big risk by also trying to design the system yourself. Your contract from the developer should include a detailed specification of the work they want done, including a drawing of pipe sizes and runs, methods and materials statements, etc. You need to check this against current regs and query anything that doesn't seem right to you.

 

[Ricardo Napoli]

Do you have any qualifications as a heating engineer? The fact you don't seem to be familar with the current Building Regulations and are asking an internet forum such a general question means you are taking on a big risk by also trying to design the system yourself. Your contract from the developer should include a detailed specification of the work they want done, including a drawing of pipe sizes and runs, methods and materials statements, etc. You need to check this against current regs and query anything that doesn't seem right to you.

Hi thanks for the reply, I’ve been plumbing for 6 years with a company doing general plumbing underfloor heating and one off new builds just want to try out site work for something different. I haven’t had any drawings as yet as I haven’t started yet was just asking about to see what it’s like. Thanks

 

[Harvest Fields]

L

That's 2010 @bogrodder, they changed it in 2014

if controlled by the same controller what’s the point of the zones?(future extensions maybe?)

 

[Aire]

L

if controlled by the same controller what’s the point of the zones?(future extensions maybe?)

Same controller but 2 thermostats, so the heating came on upstairs and downstairs at the same time but controllable at 2 different temp settings

 

[Harvest Fields]

This is part of why I don’t do house bashing!

 

[Ricardo Napoli]

Also at £2.37 per point is what they are paying on price work.

 

[chris watkins]

https://assets.publishing.service.g.../attachment_data/file/697525/DBSCG_secure.pdf
Rather than referring to manufacturers guides etc. We should be going to the Guide that is produced & kept up to date, to highlight what is required to be Part L compliant, cross different fuels & if it is new build or replacement.
Table 3, page 18 if Gas fired wet = >150M2, 2 zones required to have independent time & temperature control. The philosophy being the sleeping areas can be turned off or down during the day even if the living areas are occupied giving an saving.

 

[Tea-Break]

My understanding of Part L, is as Craig said.
Below 150 (2 zones Htg & H.Wtr) above 150 (min. 3 zones 2 Htg 1 H.Wtr)
Boiler Plus is for Combi installs.
I note the FAQ from bogrodder is from Honeywell.

 

[Sharp Point]

That's 2010 @bogrodder, they changed it in 2014

If you’re right Craig, that **** architect cost me lots of money and time in unnecessary work.

But even the BCO said the houses had to be zoned.

 

[Burger]

This is part of why I don’t do house bashing!

Is the other part because they may stipulate plastic piping?

 

[Aire]

If you’re right Craig, that **** architect cost me lots of money and time in unnecessary work.

But even the BCO said the houses had to be zoned.

I'm no expert on the subject, after all I do only fit bathrooms (whistling emoji) , but that's the way I read the building regs. And as far as I'm aware it is only deemed good practice to zone your heating off in properties below 150m2 floor area.

 

[Sharp Point]

I'm no expert on the subject, after all I do only fit bathrooms (whistling emoji) , but that's the way I read the building regs. And as far as I'm aware it is only deemed good practice to zone your heating off in properties below 150m2 floor area.

You’re probably reading it, as it is. We can’t know everything, far to much ever changing bureaucracy. We do have lives outside of our careers.

 

[Aire]

You’re probably reading it, as it is. We can’t know everything, far to much ever changing bureaucracy. We do have lives outside of our careers.

We're supposed to have lives outside of our careers? Can someone please tell my boss that . You are right though, they do keep changing, they need to make their mind up and just stick to it. Trvs for example, when changing a boiler, used to be recommended, then went to mandatory and now back to strongly reccomended. You can understand when changing a rad that as a drain down isn't required you can't force the customer to have a trv. But why it isn't mandatory for them while the system is drained for a boiler swap is just stupid.

 

[Sharp Point]

We're supposed to have lives outside of our careers? Can someone please tell my boss that . You are right though, they do keep changing, they need to make their mind up and just stick to it. Trvs for example, when changing a boiler, used to be recommended, then went to mandatory and now back to strongly reccomended. You can understand when changing a rad that as a drain down isn't required you can't force the customer to have a trv. But why it isn't mandatory for them while the system is drained for a boiler swap is just stupid.

The powers at be, just like making it hard for us

C@nts

 

[chris watkins]

We're supposed to have lives outside of our careers? Can someone please tell my boss that . You are right though, they do keep changing, they need to make their mind up and just stick to it. Trvs for example, when changing a boiler, used to be recommended, then went to mandatory and now back to strongly reccomended. You can understand when changing a rad that as a drain down isn't required you can't force the customer to have a trv. But why it isn't mandatory for them while the system is drained for a boiler swap is just stupid.

I am sorry Craig but where does it state TRVs are only recommended ?
a. Each space heating circuit should be provided with:

1. independent time control, and either:
2. a room thermostat or programmable room thermostat located in a reference room[6] served by the heating circuit, together with individual radiator controls such as thermostatic radiator valves (TRVs) on all radiators outside the reference rooms, or

individual networked radiator controls in each room on the circuit.

I can't ever remember a time there couldn't be installed if they were not where before.

You are the pro's guys, why is it so difficult to say up to date with what is required ?

The link I posted is the proper current Part L requirements, it just requires a small amount of reading.

I am not being funny bogrodder but why would you be relying on an architect to tell you the requirements for a heating system? I can understand your frustration with BCO you should know but seem to no be interested in any of it.

 

[Aire]

Page 19 of your document. When replacing a boiler, upgrading to trvs is only deemed good practice and isn't actually a requirement.

 

[Mastermixlee]

As Craig has just said above. For existing central heating systems if the boiler is changed then its only classed as good practise to fit TRV's and. Not a requirement as per table 4.

I have uploaded the snapshot of the document as some may find it useful.

It does however state that if a new heating system is installed (even if existing pipework is retained) then it does require TRV's to be installed on every radiator that isn't a reference room (one with an interlocked thermostat control).

Which I'm assuming would be the scenario where the boiler is being changed and new radiators etc at the same time utilising the existing piping that is already in place.

 

[Mastermixlee]

Then again it does also state in the document that every system should be flushed through thoroughly before a replacement boiler is installed... And that seems to often get avoided by many to offer a cheaper quote and win a job which also voids customers warranty on the boiler.

 

[Riley]

I think based on all the contradicting and conflicting opinion we can probably agree that until the profession is correctly policed then you are going to get constant discrepancy and differing opinion of what is a nice to have and what is mandatory. I would love to see this job licensed the same with gas. None of this “competent” rubbish if you haven’t got the ticket you can’t do the work. Simple

 

[chris watkins]

I am sorry Craig but where does it state TRVs are only recommended ?
a. Each space heating circuit should be provided with:

1. independent time control, and either:
2. a room thermostat or programmable room thermostat located in a reference room[6] served by the heating circuit, together with individual radiator controls such as thermostatic radiator valves (TRVs) on all radiators outside the reference rooms, or individual networked radiator controls in each room on the circuit.

I can't ever remember a time there couldn't be installed if they were not where before.
You are the pro's guys, why is it so difficult to say up to date with what is required ?
The link I posted is the proper current Part L requirements, it just requires a small amount of reading
I am not being funny bogrodder but why would you be relying on an architect to tell you the requirements for a heating system? I can understand your frustration with BCO you should know but seem to no be interested in any of it.

"Hoist by his own Petard" I think is the correct response here Craig! You were quite correct & I was wrong (very red faced ).

It is a good job I no longer teach the Part L and I promise to do CPD on it in the future.

Just to be clear that the option to not install TRVs (or similar) applies just to a straight boiler swop only. If it is a new install or heating pipework is altered or rads are replaced they must be added.
Sorry Craig, (I am sitting here stuffing my face with humble pie)

 

[Aire]

You have nothing to apologise for Chris. Enjoy the pie though

 

[chris watkins]

You have nothing to apologise for Chris. Enjoy the pie though

............................. Oh........... but.........I................do. . .. . . Craig ...
& I am absolutely stuffed... can I stop now.

Every days a school day.

 

[Sharp Point]

I am not being funny bogrodder but why would you be relying on an architect to tell you the requirements for a heating system? I can understand your frustration with BCO you should know but seem to no be interested in any of it.

What do you currently do for a living Chris?

 

[chris watkins]

What do you currently do for a living Chris?

Anything I can, but had to give up the street corners, in the end I was paying them