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Hi,

Is it OK to use a ball lever as a mains stopcock? ive read a few old threads but none of them seem to have definitive answer! also can you use plastic / push fit off a mains stopcock or does it have to be copper?
 
Providing the valve in question has appropriate WRAS approval, I see no problem.
You can buy stopcocks with push fit connections, although again it would need approval to demonstrate compliance with Water Regs.
 
Hi,

Is it OK to use a ball lever as a mains stopcock? ive read a few old threads but none of them seem to have definitive answer! also can you use plastic / push fit off a mains stopcock or does it have to be copper?

Personally I always added them rather than replaced. The lever gave a quick easy on/off but ultimately the BS1010 with a rubber washer will prove more usable/reliable over long periods IMO.
 
Why do you want to use a lever valve? If it’s because they are easier to turn for the elderly, then I would install a surestop if it’s possible. If you install a surestop you will need to put a either a lever valve or a standard stop tap before the surestop. To answer your original question yes you can use a lever valve.
 
Why do you want to use a lever valve? If it’s because they are easier to turn for the elderly, then I would install a surestop if it’s possible.

Having installed many surestops many elderly still do not have the strength to operate them. A lever is pulled about the moment of closure and is a sphere. A surestop takes great 'point' pressure from a thumb which many just can't do. Sorry, BYP but I'm a pragmatist ;)
 
No you can’t water board dont like you using them so they could make you change it

Don’t ask me why as I personally don’t see an issue
 
Lever valves are not stop cocks.
If you use a lever valve you will need to install a backflow prevention valve downstream of the lever valve.

The idea is that if the mains are switched off, water from your property cannot enter the mains - potentially contaminating the mains water supply.
So I would say you can use one with an approved backflow prevention valve.

We generally install dual check valves downstream if the lever valve
 
No you can’t water board dont like you using them so they could make you change it

Nah , they dont own the stoptap .

Personally I think they think down the lines of the “lever arms” have not been around to “stand the test of time “ .
 
Nah , they dont own the stoptap .

Personally I think they think down the lines of the “lever arms” have not been around to “stand the test of time “ .

See attached photo. They don’t own the stoptap but they are responsible for enforcing the water regulations and may legally ask for it to be removed if they are not happy with the fitting if it contravenes the regulations. o_O

3D0842B5-8E57-4EBC-A4F1-3B38B11D00D4.jpeg
 
Excuse me for being a pedant, but I'd appreciate a re-read girls. I said I put BOTH in... ;)

Oh, just a point of clarification. Since when does a BS1010 stop valve have a backflow prevention device installed? The only stop tap of any repute I can find is Peglers (it's the only one WRAS approved), and it does not have one!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
See attached photo. They don’t own the stoptap but they are responsible for enforcing the water regulations and may legally ask for it to be removed if they are not happy with the fitting if it contravenes the regulations. o_O

View attachment 36948

Unless the full link isnt working and there’s something else , it says Yes !!
I would love to see the waterboard tell some of my customers their lever arm is coming out !!
I have spent years telling and training them to turn off their water when they go away , they love em and use them because its easy . Go back to stop taps and they wouldn’t bother lol .
 
Unless the full link isnt working and there’s something else , it says Yes !!
I would love to see the waterboard tell some of my customers their lever arm is coming out !!
I have spent years telling and training them to turn off their water when they go away , they love em and use them because its easy . Go back to stop taps and they wouldn’t bother lol .
Quite right Jon. Oh and telling them to remove it would directly contravene their mandate so they waste water! Bl00dy rules!
 
Just to add to the backflow prevention at the incoming main question, our backflow prevention comes from a variety of methods, though mainly air gaps, at the point of use or point of storage and not at the main where it enters the property.
 
Having installed many surestops many elderly still do not have the strength to operate them. A lever is pulled about the moment of closure and is a sphere. A surestop takes great 'point' pressure from a thumb which many just can't do. Sorry, BYP but I'm a pragmatist ;)
I have fitted a few, including 2 for elderly home owners who have had no trouble in using them. Depends how able you are, at the end of the day.
 
All current BS1010 stopcocks, are fixed jumper.
So no backflow protection.
There is no requirement for this at point of entry to a property... just means of isolation with a DoC immediately downstream.
Exactly this, I personally don’t see an issue.
 
A timely topic as I am trying to answer the same question right now and I have also read previous topics on the subject and found the same WRAS FAQ.

The link to the WRAS FAQ screenshotted earlier is:
WRAS Installation FAQs
-The first question under "General Installation" (it's duplicated under Consumer FAQs als0).

Further advice can also be given from Arrow Valve's technical guide here:
https://www.arrowvalves.co.uk/media/wysiwyg/pdfs/Water_Regs_Tutorial_9-Isolating_Valves.pdf

The answer is Yes. But WRAS does say on the FAQ:
"But it must be suitable for this purpose, it should capable of meeting the higher performance requirements for this purpose."

My question is please; what do WRAS mean by "it should be capable of meeting the higher performance requirements for this purpose".
Perhaps they just mean better quality??

There are some lever ball valves in the WRAS approvals directory that have a note that states that they "meet the requirements of a stop valve". They tend to be DZR Brass valves. I contacted one of the manufacturers of such a valve, but they told me it wasn't suitable for replacing my main stopcock! Crazy. I'm guessing they misunderstood the regulations...(and their approval?!).
Thank you.
 
Just read through the BS1010 stop valve made by Pegler. It is fully WRAS approved AND kitemarked but it does not say its made of DZR brass at all. They do a range of gunmetal bodies but the std ones are most def not.

My view, opinion only, would be that 'performance' would be is related to flow rates. As (good) lever valves are full bore, they are naturally capable for higher flow rates than a traditional 59 pattern due to the direct through design. They will also be quieter.

In terms of longevity, good quality valves have what is termed a 'hard chrome' coating over the brass which delivers a much harder, corrosion resistant surface than std brass.
 
The only problem I have ever had using good quality levers as the point of entry isolation valve is how quickly they can be operated. You may think that is a good reason to use them (as well as the cost) however be warned if there is good flow & you suddenly stop it, them pipes will dance around & frighten the pooh out of you the shock waves can cause fittings to come off.
Not possible to do that with a good out stop valve.
 
& Stop cocks are not cocks they are valves .
Show me where it states that, so your double checks only protect against Cat 3 what happens if you had a Cat 5 ??
Exactly, we protect the mains at point of use not point of entry. Airgaps at taps, non-return valves at unvented cylinders, air gaps on CWSC, same with toilet cisterns, filling loops with double check and detachable linking hose. Rarely is "Whole site protection" needed via the main.
 
& Stop cocks are not cocks they are valves .
Show me where it states that, so your double checks only protect against Cat 3 what happens if you had a Cat 5 ??

The question regards a plumbing valve with 'stop' incorporated.
From my experience 'Stop' means - non return valve.
A valve with a loose washer, that will seal 'techinally' to prevent backflow.
Most of our water meter valves are 1/4 turn, hence the requirement for a dual check backflow valve.
This is to prevent the water from a property entering the mains, if the mains are switched off for any reason.

Not sure what Cat 3 & Cat 5 are.
 
The question regards a plumbing valve with 'stop' incorporated.
From my experience 'Stop' means - non return valve.
A valve with a loose washer, that will seal 'techinally' to prevent backflow.
Most of our water meter valves are 1/4 turn, hence the requirement for a dual check backflow valve.
This is to prevent the water from a property entering the mains, if the mains are switched off for any reason.

Not sure what Cat 3 & Cat 5 are.
In the course of my investigations, I have come across about this. I know that others have already explained this and I wish to add the details that I also found as further information.

I read (on this forum) that a water meter had it's own backflow prevention, therefore a lever ball valve was OK internally.

I would refer again to the WRAS FAQs which answers about backflow: WRAS Installation FAQs
The very first section under "Backflow prevention".

The first question "How can I protect from Backflow" has a table, which lists the Fluid Categories - this is what Chris is referring to regarding cat 3 & cat 5.
You'll also see a question "When do I need to install wholesite protection":
Q. WHEN DO I NEED TO INSTALL WHOLESITE PROTECTION?
The Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations and Scottish Water Byelaws only specify two situations where wholesite protection may be required or considered necessary.



1. To prevent backflow between separately occupied premises, an example could be in blocks of flats or other buildings of multipleoccupancy such industrial units or shopping arcade.

2. A water supplier may consider additional protection is needed for the whole or part of buildings where there is an increased risk of backflow occurring.


Your local water supplier is best placed to advise on the situations which may require additional protection.

This concurs with what is stated by the earlier posters in this thread and this forum post from Mike Jackson:
Backflow protection is not required in a normal domestic house at the point of entry, point of use protection is required. In multi occupancy properties with a single rising main where backflow could occur from higher to lower properties protection is required at all but the lowest property.

Although a loose jumper stop tap will function as a primitive back check valve it is not recognised as such within the water regulations.

Finally, what I hope might make things clearer, as it goes into more detail, is the Arrow Valves technical guidance I linked to previously:
https://www.arrowvalves.co.uk/media/wysiwyg/pdfs/Water_Regs_Tutorial_9-Isolating_Valves.pdf
See page 4 (or the summary on page 5 if you want a quick answer).

I just thought I'd share the links and information I had already come across and hope this helps.



I'm grateful to you guys for trying to explain what WRAS means by their answer to a "higher performance" requirement of a lever ball valve for a mains stop valve. I too had compared the Pegler stopcock technical specs with their lever ball valve. I wondered if it was to do with operating pressure - but that is the same also.

If I may ask please some further questions:
1. DZR Brass valves: I live in a hard water area, are these suitable? Will it make a difference? Would it be better than the common chrome plated ones?
2. Some lever ball valves have an "anti blow out stem" is this a feature one particularly wants to have?
3. The Arrow Valves Lever Ball valve, as explained on page 2 of their technical guide, has a serviceable PTFE spindle seal. The gland nut can be tightened if it leaks and the PTFE spindle can be serviced etc. They designed it this way because they say a number of local water authorities want serviceable spindles and it can also be used for oil as it has no O-ring.
I'm just wondering if it could be a prone to leaking like the old brass stopcock with the gland nut and all that. Interested in your thoughts please?

Thank you very much.
 
The question regards a plumbing valve with 'stop' incorporated.
From my experience 'Stop' means - non return valve.
A valve with a loose washer, that will seal 'techinally' to prevent backflow.
Most of our water meter valves are 1/4 turn, hence the requirement for a dual check backflow valve.
This is to prevent the water from a property entering the mains, if the mains are switched off for any reason.
Not sure what Cat 3 & Cat 5 are.
OZ, can I humbly suggest that as a practising Plumber (if in the UK), you book yourself onto a Water Regulation training course asap.
As you maybe confusing others seeking info on back flow issue.
 
OZ, can I humbly suggest that as a practising Plumber (if in the UK), you book yourself onto a Water Regulation training course asap.
As you maybe confusing others seeking info on back flow issue.

hes from down under
 
Unless the full link isnt working and there’s something else , it says Yes !!
I would love to see the waterboard tell some of my customers their lever arm is coming out !!
I have spent years telling and training them to turn off their water when they go away , they love em and use them because its easy . Go back to stop taps and they wouldn’t bother lol .
 

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