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Accumulator expense woes

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Gasmart1

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Hello to all. I have a very insistent customer who was keen to have an accumulator/pump installed and at the final hurdle done a complete u turn and opted to put a cwsc (ground level!!!) with a Stuart turner negative head single impeller pump to feed a megaflo and cold to the bathrooms.

I advised against this!

Guess what? It only doesn’t work!

Is anyone aware of a pump that would perform any better or do we all agree that an accumulator set up is the only way forward?

I would appreciate all professional opinions.

Let the debate begin...
 
Gasmart1 said:
I would appreciate all professional opinions.
Click to expand...

If your first attempt didn't work, I think you should contact Heatrae-Sadia and ask for their recommendations, e.g.:

Technical advice

Personally, other things being equal, I prefer accumulators over pumps just because they're simple and have less to go wrong; both qualities I like more and more the older I get.
 
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Why what happens in theory it should work

Now if it’s a demand problem fair enough
 
Thanks for the advice. I’m a one man band and yes the *** packet has definitely been utilised on this one!
The customer in question used to have a building firm and is full of it from time to time.
Greatwater was the original suggestion
as an accumulator/pump to be installed
but the customer seems to think that set up a bit too expensive.
They are back on mains for now but asking could a bigger pump do more?

I always cover myself with my professional guarantee...

Dissapointment
 
Dab easysys
 
Gasmart1 said:
Thanks Craig. They’ll probably opt for that being “sneezed” in next!
Click to expand...
No probs, I haven't installed one myself but I had quoted to fit one as a replacement for an earlier model, after speaking with grundfos these pumps are about as good as it gets. I would however speak to grundfos about the proposed system. Pressuring a megaflow might be too much strain on the pump motor.
 
I have

What’s wrong with the existing pump ?
 
Oops I got it wrong! Pump is positive!

Set up is as follows.

Two 227l cwsc on ground level feeding
a 3.0 bar positive head single impeller
Stuart turner pump. Which then feeds
A 300l Megaflo which was pre filled direct from mains and works fine.
The cold however does not flow to engage the pump!
System reverted to mains and works fine at 2.0 bar working pressure but customer has a lot of outlets to feed. There is no loft space for tanks hence floor level.

Top floor: bathroom
1st floor: two bathrooms
Ground level: two en-suites 3 kitchen areas 1 utility two 5 berth caravans and ... erm?... a dog shower!:)

Woof:)
 
I’m not smart enough to offer advice on this one but are your cwst high enough? Usually need about 600mm above your pump to offer “positive head”
I take it the water supply comes from a well or spring?
 
Did you protect the mains from the dog shower as it’s cat 5 risk ?
 
Pump was existing when tanks were in loft... here’s one for you... when the pump kicked in on cold water it would drag a little hot water out of the cold feed into the megaflo!
There was a valve installed there (against g3) but now removed.
As the combination valve is shared for both hot and cold I reckon the cold was the lazy route when pumped and just doesn’t like pushing 300l of water!
Ps. 1 dog shower not 5 cats shower:)
Checks installed:)
 
Gasmart1 said:
Pump was existing when tanks were in loft... here’s one for you... when the pump kicked in on cold water it would drag a little hot water out of the cold feed into the megaflo!
There was a valve installed there (against g3) but now removed.
As the combination valve is shared for both hot and cold I reckon the cold was the lazy route when pumped and just doesn’t like pushing 300l of water!
Ps. 1 dog shower not 5 cats shower:)
Checks installed:)
Click to expand...

Think you’ve mis read my post I’m on about back flow dog / animal showers are cat 5 risk
 
chris watkins said:
No it is OK Shaun / Craig he has the air gap on the break tank that will be a nice AB type :D
Click to expand...

Yes but not atm as it’s on mains water so if they use it needs to be cat

Or if he uses an accumulator
 
ShaunCorbs said:
Yes but not atm as it’s on mains water so if they use it needs to be cat
Or if he uses an accumulator
Click to expand...
":D" was the clue Shaun, even off of the mains with an AB gap it would not be allowed, as you can't even contaminate yourself, mores the pity. Then they would learn to employ plumbers who actually had & understood the Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999 :p
 
ShaunCorbs said:
Did you protect the mains from the dog shower as it’s cat 5 risk ?
Click to expand...
I thought that only applied to kennels? I read that as being non-domestic use.

Can't see how a shower handset, if not used as an ascending spray (would depend on the hose length) would need FC5 backflow protection. Not saying you're wrong, but I don't get it.

As regards the difference between positive and negative head pumps, this is covered in the City and Guilds Plumbing and Heating textbooks and doesn't matter how experienced you are, there is no harm in having reference material to hand. Of course you need a negative head pump! When the CWSC was in the loft, the pump had a flow to detect and boost, now it ain't.
 
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Ric2013 said:
I thought that only applied to kennels? I read that as being non-domestic use.

Can't see how a shower handset, if not used as an ascending spray (would depend on the hose length) would need FC5 backflow protection. Not saying you're wrong, but I don't get it.

As regards the difference between positive and negative head pumps, this is covered in the City and Guilds Plumbing and Heating textbooks and doesn't matter how experienced you are, there is no harm in having reference material to hand. Of course you need a negative head pump! When the CWSC was in the loft, the pump had a flow to detect and boost, now it ain't.
Click to expand...

no difference in commercial or domestic animals can still crap/Sod in there and shower head can be put in it
 
Craig Watson said:
Well in that case, I've came accross a few baths that should be cat 5 with no pets in site. Literally one was full of used adult diapers :eek:
Click to expand...

If the hose goes below the water line then yes it’s cat 5 that’s why they come with the rails with the retainer
 
Yes I was joking about the 5 cats... sorry about that!
All inputs really appreciated! It’s true I have limited experience with “mains pumps” and just haven’t had the opportunity to fit one. (In my experience a customer sometimes needs to witness things underperforming for it to sink in... as long as it is clear it’s on them I suppose?)
And am I right? Most of my customers have the hardest water and the poorest flow? And if they need a new boiler it has to be the biggest k/w rating?:)

Anyways, rant over! It’s likely they want to go down scala 2 route. I will post when fitted. Thanks again:)
 
Gasmart1 said:
(In my experience a customer sometimes needs to witness things underperforming for it to sink in... as long as it is clear it’s on them I suppose?) And am I right?
Click to expand...
That being the case & your not joking again, I would suggest that you are not doing your job correctly.
My customers pay me not just to put things in but for my knowledge & help in selecting the correct products to overcome problems so that (I &) they only have to do the job correctly the once.

If you haven't worked that one out as yet you will soon have a lot less customers.

Personally I would not undertake any job that I wasn't 100% confident would work correctly even, if the customer was asking me too.
After all it is not the loss of money that I am worried about it's something much more precious My Reputation.....
 

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