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WRAS question

Discuss WRAS question at UK Plumbers Forums; Originally Posted by Riley Oh I know and don't get me wrong I totally agree. The landlord is happy as they're good tenants and are willing to contribute to the ...
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    Default Re: WRAS question

    Quote Originally Posted by Riley View Post
    Oh I know and don't get me wrong I totally agree. The landlord is happy as they're good tenants and are willing to contribute to the cost
    They wont be that happy when you add on x hundreds of pounds to install a break tank

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    Default Re: WRAS question

    This is a common one that comes up all the time in London, you simple can't install them unless the water supply to them is protected by a class AA or AB air gap, either using a cistern or a pipe interrupter (& try doing that with a blended water supply).

    This is Category 5 water we are talking about here, if our water supplies are contaminated by this (e coli) you can kill not only the tenants but the whole street or more.
    I would remind installers on here that you would be liable along with the landlord should this happen (they would argue they were employing a competent person in the form of a plumber).

    If you do not possess your Water Regs Ticket I strongly urge you to get it !!

    With regards to the Manufactures Instruction I use to explain it like this - In this country we do not, as a rule, have Laws aimed at stopping the sale of products, it would just not be possible instead we legislate to prevent there use.

    Remember those mini motor bikes that were all the rage a few years back, not illegal to sell them just ride them down the street.
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    Default Re: WRAS question

    Quote Originally Posted by chris watkins View Post
    This is a common one that comes up all the time in London, you simple can't install them unless the water supply to them is protected by a class AA or AB air gap, either using a cistern or a pipe interrupter (& try doing that with a blended water supply).

    This is Category 5 water we are talking about here, if our water supplies are contaminated by this (e coli) you can kill not only the tenants but the whole street or more.
    I would remind installers on here that you would be liable along with the landlord should this happen (they would argue they were employing a competent person in the form of a plumber).

    If you do not possess your Water Regs Ticket I strongly urge you to get it !!

    With regards to the Manufactures Instruction I use to explain it like this - In this country we do not, as a rule, have Laws aimed at stopping the sale of products, it would just not be possible instead we legislate to prevent there use.

    Remember those mini motor bikes that were all the rage a few years back, not illegal to sell them just ride them down the street.
    Top points raised her, the only problem is you get DIY wannabes who can install plumbing but have never heard of water regs or think they apply to them, and this could be the house next door too you,
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    Default Re: WRAS question

    Quote Originally Posted by plumben View Post
    Top points raised her, the only problem is you get DIY wannabes who can install plumbing but have never heard of water regs or think they apply to them, and this could be the house next door too you,
    Too true but the old adage of "ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the Law" would apply & they would/should be prosecuted.

    The difference in an unregistered industry where anyone can do Plumbing, is that you might expect someone selling their services, to know what is required by the Law & carry this out.

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    Default Re: WRAS question

    Thanks all for your comments. I certainly will not be fitting this appliance not to regs so they can forget that one from the start
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    Default Re: WRAS question

    Skid marks and Klingons might be seen by some to represent British values but for those who aspire to a greater standard of personal hygiene the industry continues to evolve. The WC basin will be category 5 but provided an air gap is above spill level the hose is considered category 3.

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    Default Re: WRAS question

    Quote Originally Posted by joni os View Post
    The WC basin will be category 5 but provided an air gap is above spill level the hose is considered category 3.
    Sorry I don't understand, could you explain?

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    Default Re: WRAS question

    Same situation as if you have shower over bath with adjacent WC.
    In my experience this is often non compliant, especially with combined bath tap shower arrangement, but I refrain from racial abuse even if house owner is English.
    Unlike an open ended shower head the apparatus in question is trigger sealed at nozzle, giving an additional safeguard to back syphon.

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    Default Re: WRAS question

    Please don't let this turn into a thread that it's not meant to be guys. I merely said "religious" because I didn't ask the tenant for a full in depth explanation of why they wanted it fitting. I don't need to know.

    Joni os I do agree with your point mate however this is a specific hose to be used over the toilet so the likelihood is that it will end up down the loo or tainted with the unmentionable. the shower next to the toilet thing is not designed to be used in conjunction with the toilet. Yes accidents happen but when the regs state specifically that the air break is required then I don't see any way round it.
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    Default Re: WRAS question

    Quote Originally Posted by joni os View Post
    Same situation as if you have shower over bath with adjacent WC.
    In my experience this is often non compliant, especially with combined bath tap shower arrangement, but I refrain from racial abuse even if house owner is English.
    Unlike an open ended shower head the apparatus in question is trigger sealed at nozzle, giving an additional safeguard to back syphon.
    Yes it is a great shame that some feel the need to descend to the gutter, washing is, I agree, far superior to wiping however just because it is someones tradition to wash with a hose over a WC pan does not exempt them from the Law of the Land.

    The inhabitants of this land have had a safe to drink water supply for well over a 150 year & should fight to ensure that it stays that way.

    Things should be open to change, you are correct, so long as this does not increase the risk of contamination, unfortunately sticking a trigger valve (or any other mechanical device) on the ends of the the hose does not provide the necessary protection we deem for the risk associated with its use like this.

    If you wish to practice Plumbing in this country, whoever you are, you should find out and abide by the Law, it is not your place to decide what can & can't be fitted no matter if it is being sold or it is your long time practice or belief.

    There are other ways to achieve the same ends, in the seventies it was all the rage to have a Bidet installed for washing your rear, so long as it is an over the rim type, there is no problem installing & using these still. It just requires a slight change in ones routine (moving to the right or the left) & of cause a bit less room in your bathroom.
    Last edited by chris watkins; 02-06-2015 at 12:21 PM.
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    Default Re: WRAS question

    I share your concern Chris regards contamination of water supply, and nowhere did I suggest the trigger was a substitute for the necessary air gap. Unfortunately many of these bum guns are imported from the far east, to no known British or EU standard. Unless, like toys, trading standards seize them at the port of entry, people will install them.
    At some stage, like unvented cylinders, regs will be written, with safeguards, to allow their usage and those of you with most shout should use it to hasten the process.
    Meanwhile, I question the methodology of walking away and effectively pass the install to anyone who will tee off a rising main with no check valves and no air gap.

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    Default Re: WRAS question

    Quote Originally Posted by joni os View Post
    I share your concern Chris regards contamination of water supply, and nowhere did I suggest the trigger was a substitute for the necessary air gap "Unlike an open ended shower head the apparatus in question is trigger sealed at nozzle, giving an additional safeguard to back syphon", Sorry if I misunderstood. Unfortunately many of these bum guns are imported from the far east, to no known British or EU standard. Unless, like toys, trading standards seize them at the port of entry They are a water fitting & can be put to many uses the importers could legitimately claim they are intended for use only fed from a cistern, people will install them And if they do they break the Law.
    At some stage, like unvented cylinders, regs will be written, with safeguards, to allow their usage and those of you with most shout should use it to hasten the process. They already can be installed legally, it is just very costly & impractical.
    Meanwhile, I question the methodology of walking away and effectively pass the install to anyone who will tee off a rising main with no check valves and no air gap.
    As said above, because they don't want to break the Law but more importantly endanger our water supplies, unlike you who seems willing to put profit before safety or have I got that wrong as well?

    Can I humbly suggest that you attend the Water Regulations course if you carry out plumbing work.
    Last edited by chris watkins; 02-06-2015 at 08:09 PM.

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