Wood burning stove help

[Soulman]

Hi Guys,

I've been asked by the in laws to plumb their new stove to their existing cylinder. The system has no rads on it so the stove will only be heating the tank, which is a primatic. The header tank is plastic. My main concern is that as the system is only heating the tank, it may cause the tank to boil. I understand that the header tank will need changing because of the boiling water but do i need to incorporate some sort of temperature relief valve? This is the first stove i have plumbed in so any help is greatly appreciated!

The stove is this one Robeys | Stoves | Clearview | Clearview Pioneer 400 Stove

Thanks

James

 

[Gray0689]

You will need a heat leak of the appropriate size from MIs

 

[peteheat]

As the stove boiler is only producing 8,000 BTU's could you install a small radiator in one of the bedrooms or maybe the hallway as a heat sink?

 

[AWheating]

you will need a grade 1 indirect cylinder with a coil suitable for gravity. suitable header tank, all copper/brass fittings and overflow/warning pipe. A temp relief valve and discharge pipework, temp control on the cylinder via a cylinder stat and normally open zone valve and a correclty sized heat leak.

 

[Soulman]

Thanks for the replies, and apologies on the late reply. They've only just now bought the stove so i shall be fitting in the next few weeks. I thought they had purchased when i wrote the thread, oops!

Having spoke to my merchant about the materials listed we've sorted out just about everything apart from the temp relief valve.

Could you link or give me an idea of what sort of relief valve is required? I was thinking 90 degree located before the 2 port ofc, does it need to be 28mm fitting or can i downsize to 22mm?

 

[DirksPlumbing]

Thanks for the replies, and apologies on the late reply. They've only just now bought the stove so i shall be fitting in the next few weeks. I thought they had purchased when i wrote the thread, oops!

Having spoke to my merchant about the materials listed we've sorted out just about everything apart from the temp relief valve.

Could you link or give me an idea of what sort of relief valve is required? I was thinking 90 degree located before the 2 port ofc, does it need to be 28mm fitting or can i downsize to 22mm?

I am not sure about the temperature relief valve on the cylinder but because of potentially uncontrolled heat you definitely need a TMV for the hot water as you can not guarantee that the temperatur on the outlet will never be above 60 degC.

 

[Gray0689]

You don't need a temp relief valve it needs vented
Are you hetas qualified you should be to touch solid fuel in on mainland

 

[Reg Man]

As A Wheating says, Indirect hot water vessel with high temperature header cistern and heat sink radiator safe route. Everything copper including the cistern overflow.

 

[lame plumber]

Stove flow/returns in 28mm not 15mm

 

[peteheat]

Stove flow/returns in 28mm not 15mm

10mm should be fine for this project as it's most likely not going to be up to any relevant standard anyway.

A plumber who arrives here on 15-11-2012 and didn't see anything worth posting about until 4 hours ago suggests DIY to me.

Seen some good DIY installs over the years but they were before regulations came in, I suggest you contact a HETAS reg plumber in your area.

 

[Soulman]

10mm should be fine for this project as it's most likely not going to be up to any relevant standard anyway.

A plumber who arrives here on 15-11-2012 and didn't see anything worth posting about until 4 hours ago suggests DIY to me.

Seen some good DIY installs over the years but they were before regulations came in, I suggest you contact a HETAS reg plumber in your area.

Thanks for that insightful reply.

Yes I'm qualified and gsr. I'm not fitting the stove only piping it up, hence why I came here to ask how as I'd not done one. I knew that the vent was required but couldn't work out why I'd need the temp relief valve when it's going to be vented as A Wheating said it would. The primaries are in 28mm. I'd already thought about replacing the primatic for a gravity coil indirect.

 

[peteheat]

Thanks for that insightful reply.

Yes I'm qualified and gsr. I'm not fitting the stove only piping it up, hence why I came here to ask how as I'd not done one. I knew that the vent was required but couldn't work out why I'd need the temp relief valve when it's going to be vented as A Wheating said it would. The primaries are in 28mm. I'd already thought about replacing the primatic for a gravity coil indirect.

Well maybe you can trying seeing it from this side:

A qualified plumber who is also GSR has signed up to a library of answers and often a lot of questions outstanding in the private GSR forum, he will ask but he is not interested in contributing anything not even to the light banter ?

 

[AWheating]

a temp relief valve is a requirement of the building regulations Part g3 page 19

Vented hot water storage systems

3.13 in addition to the vent pipe referred to in 3.12 and any thermostat provided to control the temperature of the stored hot water to a disired temperature, vented hot water storage systems should incorporate either:

a, for direct heat sources, a non self resetting energy cut out, for indirect heat sources, an overheat cut out to disconnect the supply of heat to the storage vessel in the event of the stored water overheating so that the temperature of the water does not exceed 100*c

b, an appropriate safety device, for example a temp relief valve or a combined temp pressure relief valve.

(not 100% word for word)

so as you can see the only option is to fit a relief valve/ safety valve

many cylinders designed for solid fuel installtions will have a connection point for the relief valve, and i would suggest contacting the cylinder manufacture about what cylinder and valve is recommended. A valve used on an unvented cyclinder should meet the correct standards. The temp relief is fitted to the top of the hot water cylinder not the primary flow.

also building regs and water byelaws require the protection of children, disabled, very old etc..... from high temps by the use of a device to limit the temp of the hot water to 48*c. This applies to all systems.

basically the same regulations apply for any hot water system wether a solid fuel, gas combi, oil boiler etc..... also building regs part L must be met which includes zoning, full controls etc.... (there must be a cylinder stat to control the hot water temp)

the stove must meet all build regs, manufactures instructions, local guidlines on suitable solid fuel appliances etc...... it must be signed off by local building control or a hetas engineer.

You must fit a carbon monoxide detector, and pay close attention to part j of the building regs on the construction of the fireplace/ chimney.

you will also want to fit hi and low stats if your running heating of the stove to protect the stove from thermal shock which will cause corrosion.

i would suggest getting a competent person to help you fit the system.

 

[Reg Man]

Solid fuel appliance also needs to be checked to see if its on the HETAS list in the green book. Lots of imported models out there which are not and therfore suspect as to their efficency and safe operation.

 

[lame plumber]

10mm should be fine for this project as it's most likely not going to be up to any relevant standard anyway.

A plumber who arrives here on 15-11-2012 and didn't see anything worth posting about until 4 hours ago suggests DIY to me.

Seen some good DIY installs over the years but they were before regulations came in, I suggest you contact a HETAS reg plumber in your area.

10mm flow and returns on a gravity solid fuel stove!!!!!!!!!! where are you coming from, you wouldnt achieve a safe flow ever but create a nice steam production plant

 

[tamz]

It won't matter too much if there are a couple of dips in the runs then :wink:

 

[peteheat]

10mm flow and returns on a gravity solid fuel stove!!!!!!!!!! where are you coming from, you wouldnt achieve a safe flow ever but create a nice steam production plant

Obviously (I hope) being sarcastic.

 

[Reg Man]

10mm should be fine .

Got a bit worried but we know your just jesting

 

[lame plumber]

Obviously (I hope) being sarcastic.

problem with sarcasm is that someone who doesnt know may follow your advice, which isnt that funny in the end.

 

[Soulman]

Well maybe you can trying seeing it from this side:

A qualified plumber who is also GSR has signed up to a library of answers and often a lot of questions outstanding in the private GSR forum, he will ask but he is not interested in contributing anything not even to the light banter ?

Sorry, i've not seen the private gsr forum. I wasn't aware that there was one.

a temp relief valve is a requirement of the building regulations Part g3 page 19

Vented hot water storage systems

3.13 in addition to the vent pipe referred to in 3.12 and any thermostat provided to control the temperature of the stored hot water to a disired temperature, vented hot water storage systems should incorporate either:

a, for direct heat sources, a non self resetting energy cut out, for indirect heat sources, an overheat cut out to disconnect the supply of heat to the storage vessel in the event of the stored water overheating so that the temperature of the water does not exceed 100*c

b, an appropriate safety device, for example a temp relief valve or a combined temp pressure relief valve.

(not 100% word for word)

so as you can see the only option is to fit a relief valve/ safety valve

many cylinders designed for solid fuel installtions will have a connection point for the relief valve, and i would suggest contacting the cylinder manufacture about what cylinder and valve is recommended. A valve used on an unvented cyclinder should meet the correct standards. The temp relief is fitted to the top of the hot water cylinder not the primary flow.

also building regs and water byelaws require the protection of children, disabled, very old etc..... from high temps by the use of a device to limit the temp of the hot water to 48*c. This applies to all systems.

basically the same regulations apply for any hot water system wether a solid fuel, gas combi, oil boiler etc..... also building regs part L must be met which includes zoning, full controls etc.... (there must be a cylinder stat to control the hot water temp)

the stove must meet all build regs, manufactures instructions, local guidlines on suitable solid fuel appliances etc...... it must be signed off by local building control or a hetas engineer.

You must fit a carbon monoxide detector, and pay close attention to part j of the building regs on the construction of the fireplace/ chimney.

you will also want to fit hi and low stats if your running heating of the stove to protect the stove from thermal shock which will cause corrosion.

i would suggest getting a competent person to help you fit the system.

Thank you for explaining this, it now makes perfect sense