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stratplus

Plumbers Arms member
Plumber
Gas Engineer
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Out of interest:

a combi boiler where the heating is on constantly even though the boiler is set to off (on the boiler integral control) due to a pcb fault.

Would you classify this as an unsafe situation and if so how and why?
 
Id, if the pcb has failed, chances are ffd,s are compromised.
 
If the boiler heating was constantly on in this weather then wouldn't the cust knock off main power hence stopping any I'D situation?
 
It's Fubarred not Unsafe.

No gas leak
No POC's floating around
Flue termination good.
Not hanging off the wall

Etc Etc
 
Suppose you'd have to test the ffd,s. If they are knackered it's ID.
 
Hmmm the reason I ask is bg id'd it. You could argue that the ffd's have been compromised but I wouldn't have thought id.
 
Bg are very skilled at interpreting rules and regs to there advantage.
 
I think I would AR it. Usually do with any repairs that involve going back with parts.

Even with water leaks in boiler, as you would want to isolate and drain, leave AR. If customer then says no, leave it going and signs AR paperwork, and it leaks onto PCB, then there's not really any argument.

if PCB has failed then I don't really know how you can leave it and say appliance is operating correctly?
 
I think I would AR it. Usually do with any repairs that involve going back with parts.

Even with water leaks in boiler, as you would want to isolate and drain, leave AR. If customer then says no, leave it going and signs AR paperwork, and it leaks onto PCB, then there's not really any argument.

if PCB has failed then I don't really know how you can leave it and say appliance is operating correctly?

Wouldnt have left it on. Boiler was turned off at spur but wouldn't have thought it would do any harm to turn back on for a bit of hot water when required until new pcb is fitted next day.
 
You can still safety check it confirm its ok, just because the heating is running non stop doesn't make it unsafe if all other controls are good.
 
As pcb is one unit. As pcb controls safety devices. The appliance has a defective damaged or inoperable safety device? ID !
 
As pcb is one unit. As pcb controls safety devices. The appliance has a defective damaged or inoperable safety device? ID !

If all safety devices test ok (which should have been checked when working on the appliance), then there is no immediate danger. It is AR at best by your logic.
 
Didn't say had checked if rather leave it off and repair the following day?
 
if they have classed it id and not dissconected it the have failed in there duty riddor them for leaving an id appliance connected
in truth its a sales ploy
 
Just because bg id it doesnt mean its actually an id situation. Ok the pcb has powetr to it having the heating on but that doesnt mean the that the safety devices dont work. Tbh they prob still function ok and its just a fault at the start of the board . But the fact theres power to the board would tell me the pcb might be ok and it could be the timer at fault. Possibly. As long as u do your duty by checkin all safety devices , flue, gas , stats etc and they all function correctly then it isnt at risk or immediate danger. The only thing the custard is in danger of is cooking to death lol. But if not sure isolate to relieve any worries and peace of mind.
 
Not really? Bit casual. If the CH contact stuck is the gas valve closed?
 
if it wont turn off, then to my mind if it was to then run out of water due to a leak life would become interesting if it carried on running so unless you have proved the safety devices ie overheatstat,thermistors, gas failure on pcb etc all work its id in my small mind or at least ar, me i'd have turned it off and said leave alone till i have the parts.
 
if it wont turn off, then to my mind if it was to then run out of water due to a leak life would become interesting if it carried on running so unless you have proved the safety devices ie overheatstat,thermistors, gas failure on pcb etc all work its id in my small mind or at least ar, me i'd have turned it off and said leave alone till i have the parts.

Yeah IF the safety devices don't work IF it was to run out of water. How is that an immediate danger? If a 2 port is stuck open and the boiler is constantly running, do you ID that aswell, just incase some parts of the boiler decide to fail?
 
Yeah IF the safety devices don't work IF it was to run out of water. How is that an immediate danger? If a 2 port is stuck open and the boiler is constantly running, do you ID that aswell, just incase some parts of the boiler decide to fail?

No but the controller and logic controller for the two port don't send voltage to the gas valve. The pcb is a safety control, a defective control = ID
 
Yeah IF the safety devices don't work IF it was to run out of water. How is that an immediate danger? If a 2 port is stuck open and the boiler is constantly running, do you ID that aswell, just incase some parts of the boiler decide to fail?

any ffd failure in any form is ID. Same as cooker lids not shutting of the gas when closed.
 
any ffd failure in any form is ID. Same as cooker lids not shutting of the gas when closed.

Yeah but that's not what we are discussing. The FFD could be perfectly fine, and there has been no mention of it being faulty. If all the safety devices test ok then it is not ID. There is no immediate danger. The PCB controls a lot of things, just because one part of it is failing it doesn't mean its all knackered. The correct classification would be AR.
 
We can all say what if this what if that. Simple fact is if safety devices are workin and gas valve opening n closing when up to temp then its simply a broken down boiler un my eyes but lot of good comments on here. IF a safety device or something untoward was happening or failing due to this fault then its a different ball game. But if boiler functioning ok and thermostat is cutting in when up to temp then i cant see prob. I mean we can say what if a leak boiler on well itd the same if its switched on as long as overheat stat kicks in and works then fine.
 
Good debate on this one guys ...
 
I would test thermostat and ffd as well as other safety checks and if everything checked out then it can't possibly be immediately dangerous,how can you fail a boiler as ID for a faulty ffd when you've tested it and it's passed? A pcb is NOT a single component, 230v on a swl for ch demand does not = ignition! The ffd can, and will most likely, be 100% fine.

Even At Risk I think could be an excuse for not understanding the operation of the appliance adequately. Again 230v on a demand terminal doesn't mean the boiler is failing to utilise the low pressure sensor,flow switch,thermisters,overheat stat,flame rec,etc etc,all of which have to be satisfactory before ignition will commence in a modern combi . the likelihood is that the boiler is working fine,just stuck in CH,it's probably cycling fine off the boiler stat,probably modulating fan etc if it's got an air/gas ratio valve.

Ive had faulty selector switches on Baxis before,selecting hw only did nothing,with no programmer the boiler will fire constantly in ch and just cycle on/off its stat. So is that ID? Everything's working safely but there's a demand present where it shouldn't be?
 
I would test thermostat and ffd as well as other safety checks and if everything checked out then it can't possibly be immediately dangerous,how can you fail a boiler as ID for a faulty ffd when you've tested it and it's passed? A pcb is NOT a single component, 230v on a swl for ch demand does not = ignition! The ffd can, and will most likely, be 100% fine.

Even At Risk I think could be an excuse for not understanding the operation of the appliance adequately. Again 230v on a demand terminal doesn't mean the boiler is failing to utilise the low pressure sensor,flow switch,thermisters,overheat stat,flame rec,etc etc,all of which have to be satisfactory before ignition will commence in a modern combi . the likelihood is that the boiler is working fine,just stuck in CH,it's probably cycling fine off the boiler stat,probably modulating fan etc if it's got an air/gas ratio valve.

Ive had faulty selector switches on Baxis before,selecting hw only did nothing,with no programmer the boiler will fire constantly in ch and just cycle on/off its stat. So is that ID? Everything's working safely but there's a demand present where it shouldn't be?

Yes ignition sequence is well documented, but let's say for fun the fan is picking up a stray volt or two and the fan pcb sending back correct value but flue overheat sat is not communicating with pcb and those stray fan vaults are causing a mess. ? So it lights and works ok.... So your actually doing all your 26(9) checks? I would just ID it.
 
Yes I do all my 26(9) checks on every single visit...why?

Hang on so we've got a faulty pcb with ch demand,a faulty pcb sending stray voltage to a fan,a faulty fan pcb,a faulty pcb not checking resistance of flue stat,a faulty flue stat....come on...!

Let's just say for fun it's got a gas leak shall we? Make it sound a little more like an ID so you look like you're right? Lol
 
working on whats been said a boiler with a blown fuse is id as your unable to test the safety devices
 
working on whats been said a boiler with a blown fuse is id as your unable to test the safety devices

Well no because you are allowed to test an appliance that has defective saftey devices in order that you repair or make safe.

I usually hate BG and E-on (now help link) but a pcb fault is a serious one. Bus fault can be caused by 1 or 2 v dc!
 
working on whats been said a boiler with a blown fuse is id as your unable to test the safety devices

Disagree again I'm afraid. At risk. Because you can't test a safety device means you can't confirm it's safe, that doesn't make it dangerous. If you can't access a gas meter in a non emergency situation, it's AR,just because you can't do a tightness on it doesn't mean it's leaking,therefore ID.

cant access a flue...doesn't make it ID...makes it AR. Think of flue in voids.

Any appliance that's faulty, only faulty (ie no visual signs of poor combustion,spillage etc),and you've worked on it and it needs parts is AR unless you have reason to believe that leaving it connected to the gas supply is IMMEDIATELY dangerous to the user. Common sense prevails, obviously there will be occasions where it's ID for the appropriate reasons, a fuse is definately not one....
 
working on whats been said a boiler with a blown fuse is id as your unable to test the safety devices

No, its At Risk. There is the potential for it to be unsafe but as it is non operational it cant possibly be ID unless leaking gas.
 
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