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The Green Deal

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julesverne said:
i honestly think thats Chinese whispers.

you can get pas 2030 software for £300.00 plus VAT just need a agreeable missus or someone willing to do the paperwork. thats why i think we should get together as a collective and cut all the rest out.
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i know about 5 local firms that have done this now one of them gave me a break down of costs all said same thing .on paper apparently when you start this off you think its a few hundred quid but beforew you know it your upto your neck in it
 
hammers4spanner said:
thats exactly what they said down plumb center today , they said since this has properly started kicking off that one man bands work has died a death .

not thought through at all this scheme
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i did my first boiler swap in ages on tuesday

got a conversion to do on the horizon, had no enquires at all over boiler chchanges landlords who have used me for a few years hardly ring these days, it's on it's arse this game big time if you work for yourself
 
it is tough at the moment but then i do a lot bathroom refurb's and plumbing so i don't feel it as hard if i was just doing Gas i think the story may be different. but dont forget though eco funding only goes to people on benefits and pensions. so there's whole lot of others out there that need boilers . finding them that's the hard part.

i also find april to july is utter pants for getting boilers swaps cust are more interested in holidays.
 
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The obscure thing about this scheme is that a neighbour just down the road from me asked me to quote her central heating system for her which i done . She was happy with price and looked into ways to afford to do the works like a loan however she stumbled across the green deal .
Now she asked me about it whichy i told her however i cant fit her heating under green deal so now shes asking the question am i qualified to do central heating??

so in a nutshell this green deal is utterly stupid
 
Seems crazy the government are trying to stimulate growth & employment etc, then bring in the green screw you over deal, which takes a huge chunk of work away from many firms / self employed and only benefits the likes of British gas & big players...

I heard the scheme is initiated & funded by the big energy companies, so its them who want the install work generated... It's there way of getting rid of the little guys, because they cannot compete on price, but we can't compete on bull@@t like pas2030... I don't know what that is, and don't really care. All I know is I don't want it!

i hope they scrap the whole thing, a boiler scrap page type scheme would be more welcome, and easier for customer & installers alike...
 
I thought it was only for solar, oh well, will take a look through all posts and research this as may be good to offer to customers!!
 
gassafe said:
Seems crazy the government are trying to stimulate growth & employment etc, then bring in the green screw you over deal, which takes a huge chunk of work away from many firms / self employed and only benefits the likes of British gas & big players...

I heard the scheme is initiated & funded by the big energy companies, so its them who want the install work generated... It's there way of getting rid of the little guys, because they cannot compete on price, but we can't compete on bull@@t like pas2030... I don't know what that is, and don't really care. All I know is I don't want it!

i hope they scrap the whole thing, a boiler scrap page type scheme would be more welcome, and easier for customer & installers alike...
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This is the way of things to come.
If you do heating you will have to jump onto this or be left behind. The green deal itself is shyt. The usual government ill thought out idea from people who couldn't spell shift!
Nobody wants it and there has been no work done under the green deal (no matter how much they hype it) and according to an interview on radio 4 last week, out of 38,000 assesments there is a grand sum of 4 people who are signed up but no work has yet been done. BBC News - Only four people sign up for flagship Green Deal
All the work is being done through the ECO gold rush (paid for byus on our bills) but unfortunately you are unlikely (unless you want to go the whole hog) to get much of a rush out of it as you will be subbing for bottom dollar.
This will affect everyone in the trade. You either jump on and work for 1990 prices or your work will rapidly dry up and you will have to change.
Up until about March i was doing at least boiler a week but most times 2 a week. I've done 7 since then.
I had a call on Monday for a repair on a boiler (it needed an APS). Before i had the case back on, i was handed the phone from the daughter of the guy, who told me not to fix it because her dad could get a new boiler for nothing through ECO. I couldn't argue as he probably would but was then left with the how much do i charge for my waste of time. Just give me 20 quid for turning up.
This is the biggest game changer ever to hit the heating game. I can't really be ar$ed competing in it but i am still booked in for the pas 2030 shyt training (about on par with how to pysh in a tank) so i can keep in the game but i am changing direction and moving into different things.
The heating game is fkd for the small guy. If it is not the manu's cutting your grass it is the government.
 
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I'd be charging full rate for call out, sod it, if your getting nothing more from them, get as much as you can now
 
What tamz has stated is very true & his posts are always worth a read if you want a real insight into how our trade works.

Some other details on the ECO scheme, limited or no work is done to the existing radiators or central heating system, it's not covered by the scheme. Many companies are not cleaning systems correctly, so long term it's not good for the new boilers.
Yes it's a free boiler but nothing else.

As I've stated, there's subbie work out there, but be selective & realistic. Also as the scheme goes on the cowboys will be found out & the cream will rise to the top.
 
yes think it is , i enquired about eco and sounded very much same as green deal but without the bells
 
I hate this idea! It'll kill off a lot of small businesses who rely on doing the 'crap' jobs big business usually turn away from! I hope and pray that the legitimate small businesses working about can be gifted enough work to weather the storm!! had a landlord customer call me wanting me to replace a boiler under ECO! Alas, I said, all I can offer is a check after install and maybe a magna to protect the system after install! Least I get something out of it and maybe the CP12 next year? ECO potentially is going to cripple the small businesses in this industry that rely on the servicing the Shylark Landlords out there!!
 
diamondgas said:
I hate this idea! It'll kill off a lot of small businesses who rely on doing the 'crap' jobs big business usually turn away from! I hope and pray that the legitimate small businesses working about can be gifted enough work to weather the storm!! had a landlord customer call me wanting me to replace a boiler under ECO! Alas, I said, all I can offer is a check after install and maybe a magna to protect the system after install! Least I get something out of it and maybe the CP12 next year? ECO potentially is going to cripple the small businesses in this industry that rely on the servicing the Shylark Landlords out there!!
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I totally agree this is probably been arranged to kill off one man bands from the heating game they cant compete with pricing of the one man band so in one hit its pretty much sqyueezed us out of business.
I mentiond in an earlier post about how i priced a heat pack and cant do it if it goes through green deal .Its basically saying you are not able to do your job even tho you have all the quals other than the pas 2030 at £5000

The trump card tho is exactly as you say after install inspection where you rip it to bits and riddor it as you can guarantee their will be a high volume of shocking installs left with allsorts of issues
 
As said several times, why not do subbie work. Be selective & ensure you get paid.
Of course if you're a course cowboy & spend half your day with your nose in a book or your course notes, you'll be too slow to make any money doing subbie work.

I know plenty guys that are only on the GSR, van & tools & are making a very good living. So don't have a wishbone, get a backbone, get our there & find the work.
 
Dickie said:
As said several times, why not do subbie work. Be selective & ensure you get paid.
Of course if you're a course cowboy & spend half your day with your nose in a book or your course notes, you'll be too slow to make any money doing subbie work.

I know plenty guys that are only on the GSR, van & tools & are making a very good living. So don't have a wishbone, get a backbone, get our there & find the work.
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as i have said the rates down here for it are crap
 
Dickie said:
As said several times, why not do subbie work. Be selective & ensure you get paid.
Of course if you're a course cowboy & spend half your day with your nose in a book or your course notes, you'll be too slow to make any money doing subbie work.

I know plenty guys that are only on the GSR, van & tools & are making a very good living. So don't have a wishbone, get a backbone, get our there & find the work.
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I didn't go self employed to be busting a gut for some crappy day rate to make some big national company plenty of money! I may as well go stack shelves.
 
The firm I was going to subbie for has said the work may not be there now due to the crap prices, he said the funding has been capped now an the likes of bg have swallowed up a lot of the work
 
I emailed an energy firm last night put of interest on the Eco scheme, they said they wanted installers for boilers! They replied that they were owned by another energy firm and were selling leads to already registered Eco qualified installers!

What a joke, who wants to jump through hoops to get Eco registered, to then have to buy leads off a middle man company... Sounds like everyone is trying to get there slice, and the end installer who does all the work & takes all the responsibility gets the smallest reward at the end of it it seems!
 
gassafe said:
I didn't go self employed to be busting a gut for some crappy day rate to make some big national company plenty of money! I may as well go stack shelves.
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I completely understand your views mate, but being self employed is no walk in the park and for most course cowboys it's the only route they can go down. I don't know your background so I'm not inferring you're a CC.

I know of guys that are getting £130 per combi swop, finished by 2.00pm & out fixing boilers or doing CP12s for the remained of the day.

Of course I don't advocate the methods some companies use on the ECO scheme, many of which are just con men. But they're no more con men then the rest of the ex-used car salesmen that are selling Green products. How many out there have sold & installed boilers & appliances on the back of the RHI & Feed in tariffs that never materialised??? So people that live in greenhouses etc!!! There's a certain irony in the word 'Greenhouse'.....LOL!!!
 
hammers4spanner said:
well thats your issue right their '£130' combi swap

devalued trade
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I'm sorry H4S, I don't have an issue with £130 combi swop - that can be done in 4.5-5 hours & you can do as many as you want in a week! Nor do I think it devalues the trade, six week courses devalue the trade, not the rates anyone is daft enough to do the work for. Of course the £250 combi swop would be a more favourable rate - which some companies are paying.

If you can only get £130 per swop, then there's no shortage of Labour in your area & this is due, in no small part, to the number of GSR course cowboys out there. A simple matter of supply & demand.

So if you're a course cowboy & can only get the reduced rate, well, look in the mirror to see the one to blame!
 
£130 and no issue with that,

then you state can only get £130 further in post???


then in earlier post
I know of guys that are getting £130 per combi swop, finished by 2.00pm & out fixing boilers or doing CP12s for the remained of the day.


recomend 4 hour flush on new boiler for starters

just because you wish to do them for devalued rate doesnt mean we all wish to rip ourselves off , cant see a vet doing half priced works during lambing season just because he can be doing something else by two !!!!
 
hammers4spanner said:
£130 and no issue with that,

then you state can only get £130 further in post???


then in earlier post
I know of guys that are getting £130 per combi swop, finished by 2.00pm & out fixing boilers or doing CP12s for the remained of the day.


recomend 4 hour flush on new boiler for starters

just because you wish to do them for devalued rate doesnt mean we all wish to rip ourselves off , cant see a vet doing half priced works during lambing season just because he can be doing something else by two !!!!
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I'm stating the rates that I'm aware of, £250 or £130. £130 doesn't undervalue the trade in my view, course cowboys do that. If you don't get asked or get paid for a powerflush - which we all know is generally required & can take 4 hours, then why do it??

I can understand why you wouldn't want to do it for £130 mate, but if the alternative is sitting at home & waiting for the phone to ring?? I guess each to their own??

Lambing season is once a year, the ECO scheme is only around for a very short time, so no real comparison in my view.

I'm not having a pop at anyone, you want the work or you don't.
 
The £130 a swap is a very bad rate for a SE but some idiots and the desperate are doing it. There are companies paying their on the books guys more (you'll know who they are Dickie white vans green writing).
We all know we could throw a boiler on the wall and be out of there before 12 (well the guys who are into installs can) but you are cutting corners. I know guys who open the blow off for 30 seconds and that is the flush. You or they get what you pay for. Shyt money shyt guys working for them and shyt installs. Worse than warmfront imo.
At the end of the day this is a very bad run and administered scheme but there is a lot of money being made by some unfortunately not those on the front line.

Being a bit of a sceptic i'd say it was a government ploy to raise house prices through higher EPC ratings but then again why would they do that?
 
hi guys new on here so be kind , you all seem to have mixed up ideas about green deal and eco funding and most of you do not seem sure about it. we are a green deal advisor service and we have been installing eco measures since the start of the scheme and it as brought us loads of boiler installs under the scheme and yes rates are falling but they are still good. anyway I posted on here in hope to team up with a gas safe engineer in northwest who would like to get involved and install some or all of our jobs, if you want talk about it email me you can find our email on our website (would not let me post email address ) just google us eco deal based in north west. the scheme is a good scheme which gives small and big installers the same playing field. we have fitted over 300 boiler now under the scheme and we are a small family business so it can work for you too. thank you mike ECO DEAL
 
had an interesting phone call late last night friends girlfriend has had a 'free boiler' which now they say it is all but 'free' .

Anyway aparently the install was a joke turned up yesterday boiler didn't fit and wrecked some cupboard , gas undersized and no confidence in the install now so have been asked to give independant report on the installation on behalf of mates girlfriend.

a sign of things to come possibly
 
hammers4spanner said:
had an interesting phone call late last night friends girlfriend has had a 'free boiler' which now they say it is all but 'free' .

Anyway aparently the install was a joke turned up yesterday boiler didn't fit and wrecked some cupboard , gas undersized and no confidence in the install now so have been asked to give independant report on the installation on behalf of mates girlfriend.

a sign of things to come possibly
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Oh for sure, many installations are being thrown in.
 
That's common practice amongst all contract installs and price work, the quicker you are the more you get paid, H.A is no different either. I wouldn't tarnish the whole scheme because of a load of rogue installers.

i seem to remember you saying something about doing 2 a day installs a while back, surely that doesn't include a gas re run and hot/cold flush?

If you find these installs, make sure they are reported as an official complaint. The company at the top with pas:2030 have to abide by a strict set of procedures, ultimately complaints cost time and money and if they are not dealt with accordingly, could cost them their accreditation. It's no on their interest to be getting lots of complaints.
 
Yep two a day includes whatever you get hit with wether be verticle flue, new gas run and flush just worked harder faster longer . Rough with the smooth as they say and onstalls inspected. I also think this certifies me to be hard as I like when inspecting other installs as I have been there done it and own the tee shirt
 
Fair play if you can do it, I know many including myself couldn't/wouldn't.

be interested to see some pic's if this install you have to look at mate, see the standard of work. Any ideas which company installed it, pm if you like as we are both local.
 
No offence hammers but that seems aload of crap that

2 installs, vertical flue an gas runs ?

i worked with a lad who was rapid, an neat but I reckon he'd struggle doing that
 
Offence taken :)

Your lad must be crap ,
Their are loads of lads gangs that I know doing the smash and grab boiler/pack installs but I could lay my hands on about 5 that 2 boilers a day or ten plus packs a week . Hard work but quite easily possibilty .
How long does it take to run gas pipe up a wall ? 20 mins thats all and hour for verticle , gives few hours on boiler then onto next .
Like I said hard work long day but once you get routine its easy .
Dont think I have surveyed a boiler swap for years just turn up and plumb
 
HaHa

not having it, it would take you at least an hour just getting ye gear out the van an putting it back in, writing benchmark out, showing tenant how to work it.

then you have to drive to the next job !!

you must be on the whiz ;)
 
Hour getting gear out of van lol you serious
Analyse, burner pressures gas rate same time and how long does it take to explain couple buttons !
Besides tennant are idiots and cant even read half the time, next job five mins away materials all rhere waiting

Up your game and its goid coin still wouldnt work fir 130 thats a joke
 
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