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The Green Deal

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You all need to do a bit more research on this before shouting off about how bad it is?

we are talking about billions of pounds here, of course it has to be regulated. Do you really expect that sort of money to be dished out willy billy in vouchers to any Tom dick or Harry to abuse and use?

the energy companies have an obligation to meet. They need to show evidence of carbon reduction and the guidelines have been set out by ofgem in order for this to be done so that come the end they can prove they have net these obligations.


as such, don't expect to be able to get involved without jumping through a few hoops and aligning yourself with the requirements of the scheme. On the other hand, if you put the effort in, you will be able to offer free boilers directly to potential customers. The large companies are cashing in on the fact that most small businesses can't be bothered, or haven't got the mentality to get involved directly, hence the low prices offered to install only.

Theres money to be made here lads, you've just got to put some effort in and read up on the scheme as it is fairly complicated. Sorry that its not handed to you on a plate, that's life.
 
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I wish you well Nostrum but Ive seen everything I need to know about ECO and Green Deal and its not for me.
 
Care to elaborate CES? Would like to know if I've missed something.
 
The fees and the projected income didnt balance enough in my experience Nostrum.
For GDA work - £30 per GDA (possibly 1-2 hrs work minus lodgement fee of between £5-15 per assessment)
For Installation work - Combi swap - £250 (minus pipe and fittings).

The initial outlay has been considerable DEA/GDA training, NAPIT registration,Professional Indemnity insurance (£100K cover min) QMSA manual and for the first year I have had no return on this outlay (my registration is due for renewal in July).
I've not even factored in the fees involved for PAS 2030.
In my experience there seems to be a lot of money being made by others before any work is carried out (namely training and accreditation bodies). If I wasn't a born skeptic I could believe that these were a necessary evil in order to prevent the cowboys participating, but if you have enough money you can actually buy your way into schemes like these and why would the powers that be care? They are absolving themselves from all responsibility as it then lies with the installer who has PAS 2030 registration. Any subbies working under someones registration can also put that business registration at risk so It would be wise to watch out who works for you if that's the route you intend to take. Very little reward for all the risk - Im too long in the tooth for that Im afraid.
 
I already know of some reet crap firms already on the green deal scheme around my way .Its far from keeping the cowboys at bay and if anything from what i read it a legal con to the tradesman and homeowner the only winners are the govt
 
The install money Eco is awful. But if you fancy chucking 2-3k to get green deal certified for £350 to fit a boiler and you deal with any issues you go for it boys. Its a warm front replacement nothing more
 
All I'm saying is this. Do a bit of research. If you go through the motions and get accredited you shouldn't be getting £250 a boiler.
 
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I've spoken with assesors, energy providers, accreditation people, installers already installing and manufacturers, its the new warm front. Most you'll get is £1500 from say glowworm but you have to buy boiler, flue and stats, pie fittings etc and flush, let's be fair by time you've got all materials you'll be left with £500-600 if lucky, if you want that to do boiler change and power flush you go for it
 
if the governmeny was willing to invest in decent renewables and bin all the wind farm hype Id start taking it seriously. How they think its warrants spending millions on an unreliable system beggars belief. why for instance do those in charge insist on putting wind turbines in the bristol channel that wont work all the time when there is a perfectly good rise and fall of the tide for 22 hours a day to drive water turbines or utilise wave machines. The only reason wind turbines sprout up everywhere is they are over subsidised and wouldnt be viable without government support and money on our power bills.

Likewise why as technicians are we having to do paperwork exercises and jump through hoops to prove we can do the job? Because the bigger companies exert to much power in government and they dont want us involved. As a small company Ilooked at the potential returns on mcs etc and until theose in charge get there act together I couldnt see any, of thew companies I know of locally who have done all the changeover so far, the biggest one has just gone bust, 2 others are struggling now pv subsidies have changed and another one is giving it up as it hasnt helped them at all. You can say well they did it wrong but unless your in a high population area there just isnt the work or money out there at present. If nostrum is doing ok good for him, for the average contractor its just another waste of time, as mentioned a voucher scheme would be cheap to run and far far far more successful, probably to successful which is why it hasnt been used!
 
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eaton said:
I've spoken with assesors, energy providers, accreditation people, installers already installing and manufacturers, its the new warm front. Most you'll get is £1500 from say glowworm but you have to buy boiler, flue and stats, pie fittings etc and flush, let's be fair by time you've got all materials you'll be left with £500-600 if lucky, if you want that to do boiler change and power flush you go for it
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Sorry mate but your wrong.
 
lame plumber said:
if the governmeny was willing to invest in decent renewables and bin all the wind farm hype Id start taking it seriously. How they think its warrants spending millions on an unreliable system beggars belief. why for instance do those in charge insist on putting wind turbines in the bristol channel that wont work all the time when there is a perfectly good rise and fall of the tide for 22 hours a day to drive water turbines or utilise wave machines. The only reason wind turbines sprout up everywhere is they are over subsidised and wouldnt be viable without government support and money on our power bills.

Likewise why as technicians are we having to do paperwork exercises and jump through hoops to prove we can do the job? Because the bigger companies exert to much power in government and they dont want us involved. As a small company Ilooked at the potential returns on mcs etc and until theose in charge get there act together I couldnt see any, of thew companies I know of locally who have done all the changeover so far, the biggest one has just gone bust, 2 others are struggling now pv subsidies have changed and another one is giving it up as it hasnt helped them at all. You can say well they did it wrong but unless your in a high population area there just isnt the work or money out there at present. If nostrum is doing ok good for him, for the average contractor its just another waste of time, as mentioned a voucher scheme would be cheap to run and far far far more successful, probably to successful which is why it hasnt been used!
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Last post in this thread as its not constructive, I agree somewhat about MCS. The domestic RHI has caused a lot of grief in the industry as it gets pushed back again and again, biomass is doing on out of the commercial though.

as for green deal. You need to have a dig around, find the official documents and have a read about how the payment system operates. The voucher system won't work, any anyway who are you to tell private companies how they spend their money? Remember this isn't tax payers money, it's coughed up by the big six to avoid the fines they face when they signed up!
 
Nostrum said:
Sorry mate but your wrong.
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that may be so but a breakdown of what you reckon to earn on in a private forum may go a long way to proving him wrong and you right. All my experience to date is the schemes are a paper chase process and just as bad as any iso accreditation etc and dont warrant the hassle. Plus the fact that one larger local contractor has gone down the tubes having concentrated on renewables when they did fine as a domestic contractor previously.
 
Nostrum said:
Last post in this thread as its not constructive, I agree somewhat about MCS. The domestic RHI has caused a lot of grief in the industry as it gets pushed back again and again, biomass is doing on out of the commercial though.

as for green deal. You need to have a dig around, find the official documents and have a read about how the payment system operates. The voucher system won't work, any anyway who are you to tell private companies how they spend their money? Remember this isn't tax payers money, it's coughed up by the big six to avoid the fines they face when they signed up!
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which is why the whole thing is so bum about face. the people supposed to be providing green energy recieve subsidies from the government/customers to do so, then have to pay some back through elongated schemes when the best option would be to make it law to provided renewable energy, forget all subsidies and let the energy firms adjust their prices within reason and allow them to choose the methology for going green. they pay their taxes or fines to government who can then issue simple vouchers to end users to choose what they want to do. forget all the mind numbing paperwork inbetween.

Norstrum may think this to be a non constructive thread but just saying we are wrong isnt a reasonable arguement either
 
Ok, one more post !

ive put a lot of time and effort into attending seminars and speaking with people to find out the real ins and out of the scheme. Perhaps if others did the same rather than rely on the opinions of others without lifting a finger themselves they would be better informed. Certainly on the open forum I'm not going to sprout off about it all for everyone to see including the potentials clients.

In respect to MCS. Most of the companies who have been bitten are companies who popped up overnight to offer solar p.v due to the amount of profit on offer! Jumping in with both feet to make a killing, then not have anything to fall back on when the bottom fell out of it when the tariffs changed. Not entirely there fault, the government cocked it up big time by slashing the FIT over night. I've got first hand experience of this subject so feel I know the situation quite well!

Your right, unless the subsidies are there, renewables don't add up in some instances, the green deal may change that, but it is so complicated a lot are put off including myself for the time being. The FIT fiasco left a sour taste so people will be very wary about the RHI payments as well.

Eaton seems to do well out of heat pumps without the RHI being released so there are cases where the savings are enough to warrant the cost of work. You just need to be able to do the maths rather than blanket statements about certain technologies not working or whatever.

The forums can have a really damaging impact on the industry if it is full of personal opinions without substance.

What you write could be read by your potential customers in the future. Best to make sure its right and accurate.
 
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Nostrum said:
Ok, one more post !

ive put a lot of time and effort into attending seminars and speaking with people to find out the real ins and out of the scheme. Perhaps if others did the same rather than rely on the opinions of others without lifting a finger themselves they would be better informed. Certainly on the open forum I'm not going to sprout off about it all for everyone to see including the potentials clients.

In respect to MCS. Most of the companies who have been bitten are companies who popped up overnight to offer solar p.v due to the amount of profit on offer! Jumping in with both feet to make a killing, then not have anything to fall back on when the bottom fell out of it when the tariffs changed. Not entirely there fault, the government cocked it up big time by slashing the FIT over night. I've got first hand experience of this subject so feel I know the situation quite well!

Your right, unless the subsidies are there, renewables don't add up in some instances, the green deal may change that, but it is so complicated a lot are put off including myself for the time being. The FIT fiasco left a sour taste so people will be very wary about the RHI payments as well.

Eaton seems to do well out of heat pumps without the RHI being released so there are cases where the savings are enough to warrant the cost of work. You just need to be able to do the maths rather than blanket statements about certain technologies not working or whatever.

The forums can have a really damaging impact on the industry if it is full of personal opinions without substance.

What you write could be read by your potential customers in the future. Best to make sure its right and accurate.
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i agree what your saying and where coming from.

but for me the regulatory burden for a one man band i feel is just too much. for the amount of money that has been thrown at this scheme. it would have been far simpler to offer a voucher scheme and then afterwards to comply you could have the installation inspected by a governing body ie gas safe mcs body for a reasonable fee which could be deducted from final payment if it complys you get paid or you have to get it upto spec to get paid that isnt difficult it creates jobs as you need inspectors and not the sharks middlemen who know feck all about heating and renewables.
 
although i am not interested in the green deal the eco affordable warmth scheme is more appealing however have no idea how you go about finding relevant info foer installers
 
Trust me I'm not, I know 3 firms doing the £1500 instal currently, as I've said I've had very in depth conversations with people already involved. Eco scheme is warm front end of, green deal isn't currently set up for heatpumps or solar its geared at insulation which is something we already had in place and was going well.
 
The Eco scheme is the green deal its just a branch off of it. You'd need pas to get green deal then you can get in contact with manufacturers about evo grants.
 
I've done 100s of surveys for the affordable warmth ECO scheme, most of which are combi swops. From the installers point of view, like everything else, there's good companies & bad doing it, some are paying £130/swop & other better ones are paying £250/swop. Some are doing full powerflush, which as we all know is required!! Others dont bother & stick some X800 in for a few day before the swop, then hot & cold flush it.

Oh there's plenty work out there on these schemes for RGIs, but be selective who you work for. I enjoy the work & it keeps me off my knackered knees for a few days a week & the firm I'm doing them for do a good job, have a high standard of work & only work for the likes of SSE - that do it right.
 
Well mate if you know the size of a Band A boiler Primary Heat Exchanger's water ways there's no way you wouldn't powerflush it, regardless of any regs.
While powerflushing is not the answer to every system's ills, in the case of a boiler swop it's a must in my view.
 
What many have said here is true about doing install work on these schemes, lots of guys are making good money doing this type of work for the GOOD companies. If you have all the right gear, lots of experience, the qualifications & are willing to work hard. Then making £200-300/day can be easily done. If you're an old git like me with loads of qualification, skill & experience, well, leave it to the young guns in my view.
 
Reg doesn't actually state a power flush and never has, simply says system should be cleaned to British standard, its up to the installer to determine what treatment is needed. Know a lad doing Eco scheme with a mate, their doing 2 a day, says its 3-4 hours straight swap and run condense. No way they're power flushing.
 
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Some Energy Companies are having it done, it's in their Specifications on this scheme. SSE for example.
 
eaton said:
Reg doesn't actually state a power flush and never has, simply says system should be cleaned to British standard, its up to the installer to determine what treatment is needed. Know a lad doing Eco scheme with a mate, their doing 2 a day, says its 3-4 hours straight swap and run condense. No way they're power flushing.
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What are they getting per job ?
 
eaton said:
Reg doesn't actually state a power flush and never has, simply says system should be cleaned to British standard, its up to the installer to determine what treatment is needed. Know a lad doing Eco scheme with a mate, their doing 2 a day, says its 3-4 hours straight swap and run condense. No way they're power flushing.
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Oh I know what you're saying is true mate & I'm sure your pal is doing very nicely out of it.

Dont get me wrong I'm not a huge Powerflush fan, but at times it's the only way to get the crud out any system....
 
this was on the news yesterday about the green deal and compared to other govt schemes apparentley its way down on the take up of orders ,faltering methinks.
 
All the guys that are installing at the moment can't be installing for the green Deal.

There hasn't been any installs carried out on the Green Deal yet, just inspections because they've got money issues or something.

All these installs will probably be on the eco scheme.
 
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