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JAH HEATING

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Just reading a bit about it in the monthly mag, I have an old 1920s house that has an old myson Apollo and gravity hot water...

no insulation, or double glazing with me being a landlord if I got an assessor out.... Would the works sThat got carried on, simply go onto the tenants fuel bill ?

I'm going to otherwise get the system changed by myself an pay for the windows to be done
 
I'm afraid I think its the landlord that gets to pay unfortunately according to this guide - Green Deal For Tenants

'The Green Deal scheme involves the homeowner, in this case your landlord, taking out a loan to fund the improvements needed to bring the property up to the required energy efficient standard.'
 
is it not still the landlords debt to pay though whether absorbed through bills over 25 years or not?
 
The charge will be paid by the tenant if occupied, if the property is vacant the Landlord foots the bill until the property is let again.
 
How I read it, the cost, bill, is paid through your electricity bill, so if the landlord doesn't use any electricity does he still have to fork out?
 
The landlord will still have a standing charge on the meter to pay for the green deal.
 
It's all abit vague this but easy way to look is tenant pays for it on their bills, if they move out ll pays until new tenant in.
 
L/lords can get it done for free through ECO (affordable warmth). Another scheme to kick the small guy in the nuts.
 
I do work for a letting agent with loads of old appliances and the type of tenants that'll qualify for ECO ... They're getting all their properties checked out free to see if they qualify for replacement!

Does anyone out there know who gets to do the installs? that is can anyone get the work or do you have to register somewhere or other?
 
Youll have to register as an installer and conform to PAS2030 , oh and pay another fee for the pleasure of working.. Im glad Im out of this game now, they wont be happy until the small guy doesnt exist imo.
 
Cheers CES ... I thought I'd heard somewhere that you need to pay to be accredited or sub for a credited company for a pittence!!! Looks like my repairs income will be hit too if they get rid of all the old boilers and install 7-10yrs warranty boilers........!!! It sounds like things are going to get a bit harder for anyone wanting to set up or even continue to work as a one man band..!
 
Cheers CES ... I thought I'd heard somewhere that you need to pay to be accredited or sub for a credited company for a pittence!!! Looks like my repairs income will be hit too if they get rid of all the old boilers and install 7-10yrs warranty boilers........!!! It sounds like things are going to get a bit harder for anyone wanting to set up or even continue to work as a one man band..!

Diamondgas,

^^^^ exactly the conversation I had with the Worcester rep on Monday, without sounding too doom and gloom we have a few changes coming in the industry.

So far manufacturers do not seem to be interested in the rest of the central heating system, hopefully this will provide a small amount of work for the future!!
 
Diamondgas,

^^^^ exactly the conversation I had with the Worcester rep on Monday, without sounding too doom and gloom we have a few changes coming in the industry.

So far manufacturers do not seem to be interested in the rest of the central heating system, hopefully this will provide a small amount of work for the future!!

It's certainly good news for landlords/tenants and the others able to request a replacement. Who's doing the work though? You can't just 'magic' installers from thin air? I'm guessing this'll push installers to 'lower' their standards and pricing to get at least some work in? With a bit of luck the demand will outweigh these companies workforce and private guys will get the overspill?

Does anyone know how much the accreditation costs? Not that I'm after it as I do maintenance and repair with only the odd one or two installs here and there :)
 
Who's doing the work though? You can't just 'magic' installers from thin air? I'm guessing this'll push installers to 'lower' their standards and pricing to get at least some work in? With a bit of luck the demand will outweigh these companies workforce and private guys will get the overspill?

Every big company and their dog is doing it Steve, even BandQ. It is a free for all for the big boys. The only over spill we will get is if we are daft enough to work for these bandits.
Take a look on any job search site. There are hundreds of ads recruiting installers all over the country but the money is as bad as £120 a swap as a subbie. Some of them are even dumping all the responsibility on the installer (idiot) by making them buy the boilers they fit off them. You can imagine the quality of the work that will be done.
I know a guy who worked on it for less than 1/2 a day then walked off the job. Job badly surveyed, he'd to go pick up the shortages etc etc. After a half hour on the phone trying to get an order number he picked up his tools and left the customer with no boiler fitted.

This will be worse than the warmfront fiasco and it will have a very bad impact on all the small guys.
 
Its not all doom and gloom.

Manufacturers are starting to get involved. We just sent some stuff off to glowworm

Basically they provide you with 1500 to fit a gw boiler which is free for the customer.

Much better deal than doing it as a 120 a day subby. Customer can choose an installer. Better standard all round and everyone is much happier than they would be otherwise:)
 
whats the deal with glow worm i am club energy installer quite often get emails regerding training etc etc
 
Register details with them and you can provide custards with a free boiler providing they meet the affordable warmth criteria. They give you 1500 minus whatever boiler and controls you buy. They deal with the grant side of things.
The remainder is for pipe and sundries and your fee is what's left.
That's my understanding anyway.

It will help the little guys stay afloat and its in the interest of the manufacturers to do this also as The 'firms' rinsing the eco schemes will favour a particular cheap shiddy boiler like the eaga/isar combination:rolleyes:

So manufacturers if they want to jeep selling boilers need to make sure the independents keep going and can provide a choice. Undertaking the grant thing in an installer behalf is one such way and imo if all manufacturers follow suit it will be the 'thrown at the wall by monkeys, firms that will suffer
 
That'll sound reassuring for the smaller businesses kay-jay, thanks for that :) Do you know if you have to have any registration behind you, jump through any hoops, to be accepted by glowworm and those behind ECO?
 
Every big company and their dog is doing it Steve, even BandQ. It is a free for all for the big boys......

This will be worse than the warmfront fiasco and it will have a very bad impact on all the small guys.

I went to help out a guy doing his first 'green deal' and it was as you said, responsibility dumped on him, poor surveying and an intimidating 'jumped up' representative trying to crack the whip! He did the one and only then told them where to shove it! He's still awaiting payment.........!

They're taking advantage of those in need of work IMO.... Probably fleecing a load of profit into their own pockets at the same time? :32::32::furious3:
 
That's exactly whats happening, lots of these "jobs" are being passed through an array of middlemen who claim to be "green experts" until they reach the installer who has to install, commission and deal with any remedials all for whats left in the pot, which usually is the square root of feck all. I wouldn't bother to be honest as IMO we are nearing the end of the helterskelter that was our industry. But then again its easy for me to say that as I'm out of it now.
An arrangement like Kayjays is probably the best route to take, given the circumstances at the moment.
 
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Found this out today after a bit of snooping about , apparently 10% of manufacturers sales can go to the little one man bands under a grant how it works not to sure other than for starters you need to be an approved installer of manufacturers boiler.

gonna nose into it more tmoz
 
i signed up through a middle man Loft & Cavity Wall InsulationCentral Heating & BoilersGreen Deal AdviceAll of your energy needs! - Greener energy efficiency measures available under ECO and Green Deal funding. you can use thier pas regisgration. u just need gas safe reg and pl. you get 275 for a terrace 300 for asemi.
i worked out about 90 for mats and fuel. any revisits are downto you. and majority of jobs i ase
sessed were for ethnic minorities out for a imagined freebie. i coul foresee all kinds of problems with custs eg radiator that hasnt worked for 20 yrs becomes your problem.

i was about to do 1st job and was getti ng messed around and *£¥/ed them off
 
i signed up through a middle man Loft & Cavity Wall InsulationCentral Heating & BoilersGreen Deal AdviceAll of your energy needs! - Greener energy efficiency measures available under ECO and Green Deal funding. you can use thier pas regisgration. u just need gas safe reg and pl. you get 275 for a terrace 300 for asemi.
i worked out about 90 for mats and fuel. any revisits are downto you. and majority of jobs i ase
sessed were for ethnic minorities out for a imagined freebie. i coul foresee all kinds of problems with custs eg radiator that hasnt worked for 20 yrs becomes your problem.

i was about to do 1st job and was getti ng messed around and *£¥/ed them off


so in other words it is a disguise for warm front
 
It's a way of dangling a hook to those in need to make money in my opinion! Your then caught and abused until they don't want you anymore... May make a bit but not quite enough to say NO! Bit like a slave, feed them enough but not too much so they're satisfied!!!! :)
 
I was wondering what it was about this 'deal' that niggled me..! I then thought of those trying to make a living, just managing to get by with a sh*ty heating boiler that's costing them a fortune..... They don't qualify so have to fork out themselves .......! To me there's something wrong when a Landlord can 'Lord it up' on a pretty decent income whilst their tenants live in squalor! then along comes a 'freebee' and although they can afford to do the work for their tenants but choose not too, suddenly Decide to take advantage of this scheme .... !!! There's something not quite right there IMHO :)
 
I have told them a few times to take me off thier email list but just had this one through... sounds like they are pushing the installers to condemn the existing boilers for no services records??? etc. in order to rush the installs through

HI All

we are starting the new fund run by us middle of next week , we have payment within 2 weeks after each weeks submission so this will shorten the pay scale to around 3 weeks – 28days . The pay is £225.00 an install for terrace and £250.00 for others , we order all the parts indicated on your pre survey report the correct ofgem form and survey is attached all boiler are being provided without direct cost to us and we will be fitting Baxi duo tec / system and heat only do not require sparky as they have digital thermo and clock , you will get a 20 m flex flu extension and an inline filter and flu .

You can never order parts from our account ever , it is a sack able offence, any parts ordered on survey that do not appear on the job will cause us to end your employment and the cost will be taken from your wages, any parts you forget on the survey you will provide yourselves, we have employed semi retired engineers to spot check work for parts ordered this is due to theft from the last set of installs .

I cannot stress enough that the paperwork must be returned each evening or by 7.00am the next day, failure to do so will stop your installs for the next day ( no exceptions ) late paperwork will incur fines of £10.00 for every day late and / or end your employment with us, so get a scanner before you start up , a boiler installed without paperwork cannot be paid by the provider or us so you will be wasting your time, each document must be sent on one email and individual photos 1 email per home fitted for the new iPad submission software , if your not sure how to fill out the paperwork you need to ask us before you attempt to do a fit .

New paperwork to follow before Monday

Under the following conditions you must condemn the boiler put a sticker on it and cap off gas, although some are a little over zealous the rules recently have been tightened listing other faults as well . (this will be starting from 21[SUP]st[/SUP] June 2013-next Friday)

PARTS OF FLU HIDDEN NO HATCH
ROOM SEALED BOILERS ( as above )
INSUFFCIANT COOLING / VENTING
EXCESS CARBON MONO ( of course) flu analyser fails .
INLET PRESSURE –DUE TO UNDERSIZE GAS SUPPLY
MECHANICAL STABILITY PROBLEMS ( loose fitting boiler )
CHEMICAL GAS DAMAGE
GAS LEAK
NOT BEEN SERVICED REGUALARY ( this could be common must see proof or condemn )
WORN THERMOCOUPLE
CORODED FLU
CASING DETERIATION

A condemned sticker is required and give the customer a copy of gas check find out if they have a secondary heating system to tide them over for a maximum of 5 days before you reinstall of new boiler, all condemned boilers will be fast tracked to install.


Kind Regards
 
what annoys me most about the whole thing is the over inflated projected savings 30% is what they are working on.

how many condensing boilers have you guys fitted where the customer has come back and said to you 'wow my gas bills are waaaayyy cheaper now' truth is most barely notice any savings at all if any.
 
This has to be the biggest and waste of money/rip off in years. and its the big companies making all the money not the little Guy. i'd rather work in morrisons and stack than work as a subby for these sharks.
now i know we have to put food on the table and some of us clothe the kids.
but if they stopped and thought about we could literally hold these sharks to ransom it just seems some people daft to realise this. little guy takes all the responsibilty yet gets feck all reward.
this is the main reason i'm focusing more on bathrooms at least the sharks cant take these.
still if they all fitted like a bag of carp and they will a few years down the line should reap a fair bit repair and maintenance and no doubt a fair few will need replacing.

it would have been so much fairer giving custs a money off voucher to use with whoever they choose.
 
But why is it on the only BIG firms that are going to get the bulk of the work?
Surely if you do Energy assessor and green deal advisor tickets you can get fully paid rather than subbing? Can anyone clarify as I am in need of significantly more regular work., things are a bit sporadic at present and it's wearing thin!!

How are companies picked to do assessments or installs?
anyone doing this eco scheme? sounds better than green deal which I think will be a total flunk...
 
AHh....after a bit more research, it seems the BIG SIX energy providers basically handpick who they give the install work to?? Wow that is so corrupt it's almost ridiculous?!!! Am I right in thinking there's no frickin chance of getting on their books .... the only chance may be through my prefered boiler supplier? and theres probably not much chance there as much bigger companies who buy thousands of boilers will probably get all that work!!
 
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