speed fit on secondary return

[sheff paul]

Just changing some dodgy waste pipes on a dubious bathroom job installed by a DIYer putting speed fit in as some has already been fitted in for some time before ,then notice's the unvented has a secondary return fitted.Do I finish it off in plastic and get done for lunch,or do I rip it all out and get home late,this job is a favour money free one.Has anyone fitted platic on a secondary return set up,yes I know you should not use it.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

i dont see why not to use plastic on a secondary return , do you ?

 

[SafeGasInstall]

as long as there is a pump and nrv

 

[sheff paul]

saw something on speed fit info about not using it,yes it is pumped and there has been some in for quite some time

 

[plumber0808]

I have seen it done quite a few times and done it myself on first fix.

I did see last week in a magazine it shouldn't be used on constant hot water circuits. The mag is in the van but haven't read it yet.

 

[buckley plumb]

would have thought its ok if it can take boiler primarys temp then sec hw should be ok

 

[sheff paul]

would have thought its ok if it can take boiler primarys temp then sec hw should be ok

I was under the same impression boiler circs are far hotter than a secondary circuit 10 metres away from the cylinder

 

[Gray0689]

It be fine

 

[SafeGasInstall]

i think to be 100 % accurate a phone call to manufacture will tell you , and then you can update us here PLEASE i hope the secondary return was not piped with overflow/condense plastic , was it ? lol

 

[sheff paul]

It be fine

Thanks for that lads looks like I will be done for lunch

 

[markfxy]

used it a lot on secondary's with no problems don't see why you can't

 

[SafeGasInstall]

is still lunch ?!lol

 

[sheff paul]

is still lunch ?!lol

hope so but things usaually go pear shaped

 

[plumber0808]

looks like I will be done for lunch

You have done it now..... I hope you haven't made plans.

 

[plumber0808]

Here is hep 2 0's say. I bet they are all the same as well.

Hep2O - The Professional Flexible Push-fit Plumbing System from Wavin - Ring Main Installations - push-fit plumbing, flexible plumbing, Hep2O, Hep20, push fit plumbing, domestic plumbing, demountable plumbing, plastic pipes and fittings, plastic plum

 

[sheff paul]

Hep20 say its a no no to use on secondary returns or ring mains. I dont know about other makes. See hep20 website "frequently asked" in technical section

please delete this post,as I was thinking about taking the bike out after lunch

 

[Megaflo-Experts]

Most plastic pipe is not rated for secondary returns, and most manufacturers specify this!
Secondary return is very different as it must withstand hot water for a much longer period of time; potentially 24/7!

 

[plumber0808]

You have done it now..... I hope you haven't made plans.

Told you. As soon as that sentance " i will be done by lunch is even murmured you might as well prepare for a late one

 

[Gray0689]

please delete this post,as I was thinking about taking the bike out after lunch

Put the secondary return on a timer ten it's not continuous

 

[Mike Jackson]

Straight from the horses mouth.

Continuously operated re-circulating systems (secondary hot water circulation / ring main installations)
A continuously operated re-circulating system is a water-replenished circulating system which is maintained at a constant high temperature to provide a constant source of hot water. Continuously operated re-circulating systems are used to distribute constant hot water to draw off points that may be distant from the source or hot water storage vessel. Continuously operated re-circulating systems are very different from conventional hot water supply and central heating systems found in domestic properties, for which our products have been tested to, under either BS7291 Class S or WRAS approval standards, and for this reason Speedfit products must not be used on any continuously operated re-circulating systems as they are not approved under the current version of these standards.

Look at John Guest Speedfit - The World Leader in Push-fit Fittings, Pipe and Plastic Plumbing Systems - JG LAYFLAT POLYBUTYLENE PIPE IN COILS click the technical specification tab.

 

[plumber0808]

^^^Same as hep's statement word by word I think.

 

[markfxy]

its not continuously operated with a timer and a stat you would never run a secondary return 24/7 it'll run at a lower temperature than central heating and probably for the same length of time in the winter

 

[kozak1968]

My house has a speedfit secondary return in for 14 years. Its still o.k..... These companies always want a get out clause for the warranty. I've used all the brands at one time or another and never had a problem.

 

[dancinplumba]

But unvented temps can get very High, and higher pressure than CH systems

 

[SafeGasInstall]

But unvented temps can get very High, and higher pressure than CH systems

max operating temp 65 degrees
max operating pressure 8 bar
when i worked on new build we tested h20 on 10 bar pressure

 

[Mike Jackson]

It's got nowt to do with whether it will fail or not. The pipe hasn't been tested for use on secondary hot water circulation systems because it isn't a common enough application to warrant the expense. It is therefore not approved for use for this application.

 

[Gray0689]

But unvented temps can get very High, and higher pressure than CH systems

3 to 3 1/2 bar pressure reducing valve
Only as hot as normal hot pipework

 

[SafeGasInstall]

3 to 3 1/2 bar pressure reducing valve
Only as hot as normal hot pipework

steve did mean under not normal operation

 

[sheff paul]

It's got nowt to do with whether it will fail or not. The pipe hasn't been tested for use on secondary hot water circulation systems because it isn't a common enough application to warrant the expense. It is therefore not approved for use for this application.

Decided to bite the bullet,ripped out all the plastic,repiped in copper,would have been ok in plastic,still got short stabs connecting the sanitary,but none on the ring main,felt an air of superiority,until I felt the pain of buying copper at todays prices.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

how much was it 15mm and 22mm

 

[sheff paul]

how much was it 15mm and 22mm

about 4 mts of 15mm

 

[SafeGasInstall]

I was asking for the price ?

 

[Gray0689]

I was asking for the price ?

£1.10 a metre

 

[kimbo]

The hotter the pipe gets the less pressure it could take so If you were really unlucky and your pressure reducing valve failed and your thermostat failed I think you could very easily blow the pipe like you see has happened on some heating systems.

 

[Howsie]

its not continuously operated with a timer and a stat you would never run a secondary return 24/7 it'll run at a lower temperature than central heating and probably for the same length of time in the winter

Why not?