Servicing gas fire gas valve.

[Gary80gas]

Ive just shut off a Main madrigal gas fire because the gas valve is jamming and not shutting off the gas when the pilot is extinguished.
I cant get a replacement valve because of the age of the fire. G.C. 32-477-65.
How easy is it to service these valves, what will I need and what is the success rate?
If i can't service it the whole fire will have to be replaced, I'd prefer to fix it.
Any help appreciated.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Not sure but I will have a look when I get in Mate.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

they cant be serviced / not worth the hassel

 

[Gary80gas]

Your probably right, im sure if I got it working it would be difficult to guarantee and end in a call back. Im still hoping someone will post it can be done.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Sorry mate I forgot to look. If @ShaunCorbs ssysit cannot be done then he is probably right but will look later

 

[sammathias]

New fire time i would say.

 

[Last Plumber]

Your probably right, im sure if I got it working it would be difficult to guarantee and end in a call back. Im still hoping someone will post it can be done.

If it is a standard plug type valve like most gas fires and cookers have, then it will most likely come apart and be serviceable. I would use high temp grease if you do get to that stage.

However, there is probably a greater chance of it turning into one of those "I wish i'd never seen it" jobs rather than an award winning success. As long as the customer knows it is a last ditch attempt that is likely to fail but still cost money, then go for it (always play the pessimist) . You also need to be confident that it will last and remain safe for a year or so following your visit, as you are the last to work on it !!!

 

[Gary80gas]

Thanks for the advice Last Plumber. You've also identified that grey area of responsibility bringing a failed component back to life, if its safe when you test it in operation then that's the job done, surely. If you've no reason to believe it will fail but it does a month later, how are you to know. I know I would test it over and over before walking away. I couldn't leave a temporary fix on a gas fire.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Thanks for the advice Last Plumber. You've also identified that grey area of responsibility bringing a failed component back to life, if its safe when you test it in operation then that's the job done, surely. If you've no reason to believe it will fail but it does a month later, how are you to know. I know I would test it over and over before walking away. I couldn't leave a temporary fix on a gas fire.

The thing is you will have to warrenty the part for 12 months as you've stripped and serviced it also your modifing a part

 

[Gary80gas]

That makes sense, is that actual consumer law?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

That makes sense, is that actual consumer law?

Think so

 

[mfgs]

I wouldn't get involved in stripping a gas valve down. How do you confirm its all within manufacturers tolerances etc. High risk, low reward. Not sure on the legalities of modifying a gas part either.

 

[Last Plumber]

That makes sense, is that actual consumer law?

No I don't think so.

There is nothing wrong in a Qualified Engineer using his or her skill to service, maintain or repair something. Cleaning and lubricating a gas tap (if that's all it turns out to be), is classed as maintenance and is an acceptable thing to do.

With the 12 month comment I made, I was more meaning that if it were me doing it, I would personally need to feel confident that it would last that long for my own peace of mind. I would also be looking at it that the responsible person should be getting the fire serviced again in twelve months time.

As far as modifying a part goes, I would disagree with that (no offence meant here Shaun/mfgs). To modify something is to make an alteration to the original item or appliance that was manufactured. In this case you are simply servicing an item that was designed to be serviced. Again, I am presuming that we are talking about the plug type common gas fire/cooker taps.

 

[Gary80gas]

I also didn't understand fully the term modify the part. To me that means changing the part dimensions. Servicing to me is basically cleaning and greasing, retesting.
The part I originally posted for help is a thermoelectric gas fire valve. I serviced the pilot light tubes to get the pilot working, then tested the thermocouple and it was working. Then extinguished the pilot and the valve didn't shut down, no click, struck a match and pilot relit.
To me its jammed open and my gut instinct is to pull it apart and clean it, but first I looked for replacement part with no luck.
I work alone and just wanted to get a feel for how others were approaching a similar problem.

 

[Last Plumber]

I also didn't understand fully the term modify the part. To me that means changing the part dimensions. Servicing to me is basically cleaning and greasing, retesting.
The part I originally posted for help is a thermoelectric gas fire valve. I serviced the pilot light tubes to get the pilot working, then tested the thermocouple and it was working. Then extinguished the pilot and the valve didn't shut down, no click, struck a match and pilot relit.
To me its jammed open and my gut instinct is to pull it apart and clean it, but first I looked for replacement part with no luck.
I work alone and just wanted to get a feel for how others were approaching a similar problem.

To Modify something is to alter it from how the manufacturer intended. So for example, you could use a different multi-functional gas valve on a Boiler to the one specified. It would work as long as it delivers the correct BP, Gas rate and is the same electrically but you would have modified it from the original specifications.
This is frowned upon by pretty much everybody and for obvious reasons.

If the thermometric valve is not closing, you would have to investigate why. It may well be that the thing has failed. It is normally pretty obvious pretty quick. I think it's worth a look.

Don't forget that a lot of parts where used on other appliances. Sometimes it is worth identifying the part itself - if that's possible - as they may still be available when that particular appliance is obsolete.

 

[Gary80gas]

Thanks Last Plumber. I looked at some generic gas fire valves but they didn't match the design. It wouldn't surprise me to find the spare part is still out there somewhere. The fires more than 30 yrs old and using the GC 32 477 65 spares are listed on internet but not available.
The customer has already agrees to replace the fire later this year so maybe after ive stripped it out i'll pull it apart on the kitchen table.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Had a look around but no joy. Sorry mate.

 

[firemant]

You are required to carry out work t a reasonable standard. There is no "requirement" to warrant work for 12 months. Ideal warrant parts for 12 months but labour for only, IIRC, 12 weeks. Total farce from them, check their T&C's before recommending their Fixed price repairs.

Anyway, I was amuse by the chat about the valve, and guys not being able t work on them. FFS, we are service engineers, we are supposed to repair stuff. Having said that, if it has a TE valve, then it is that section that is sticking on. I can't recall ever having that problem, TBH. I would offer the punter the option of a new fire, or agreeing for me to attempt to dismantle to look for problem. If it is the valve I am thinking off, the solenoid is on the end opposite to the knob, and screws off. But even I would be reticent as to the likely success.And the fire is ancient, and unlikely to be a fire for which parts are available

I might approach it along the lines of "I will attempt to repair it, but it is 'do or die', and I don't work for nothing. I will charge X amount, with no guarantee if success, short or long term, but if I cant get it working, I will waive the fee on the understanding that I fit a new fire at X cost.

But it needs to be in writing.