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RHI Update

Discussion in 'Renewable Energy' started by JonG1, Nov 4, 2015.

Discuss RHI Update in the Renewable Energy area at UKPlumbersForums.co.uk.

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  1. voivod

    voivod Plumber GSR

    read a report saying the government were going to spend on overseas renewables too offset our carbon tax here...

    Not gona say it but they are 4$$$s....you guess
     
  2. Nostrum

    Nostrum Plumber GSR

    Looks promising for RHI until 2020 :grouphug:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber

  4. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber

    • Like Like x 1
  5. Norcs

    Norcs Member

    The sooner grant funding for renewables is over the better.
    Terminated, finished etc.
    That's basically what a guy with a 50kw solar array was saying to me today.
    He seen the same system he had installed on e bay for half the price and challenged the guys who installed his system to match e bay.

    Well you can guess they just fobbed him off. None of them seemed willing to accept a cash bung to sign it off.
    The money comes out off poor peoples pockets. The very people who cannot afford the extortionate cost of renewables.

    Then those in the renewables industry can price on a level playing field with competitive opposition.
    We need getting rid of the middle men in the renewables industry who play no part with the end user. These parasites only got involved in order to feather their own nests.

    What we need is more shipping from china that can by-pass the burocracy and sell straight to the consumer and then see if it can stand on its own two feet.
    I reckon it can if the middle men sharks are removed.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2015
  6. Norcs

    Norcs Member

  7. Norcs

    Norcs Member

    After that all you need is a decent price for exporting to the grid.

    Why is it a power supplier charges a customer 17p per unit for electricity and only pays 3 pence per unit when buying power from him.

    That was the situation one of our customers found him self in after he erected a 250kw turbine.
    He uses about 100kw him self with his business.
    He employed a solicitor to haggle a better price but got no where. Waste of time and money.

    So then he told the power supplier he had changed his mind and wasn't gonna connect the turbine too the grid.
    Guess what? They came to him cap in hand with a better deal.:yes:

    Same guy is only after installing a 50kw solar array on his roofs.
    He has three saws which need about 100kw when running.
    The largest saw has a 10 foot diameter blade.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2015
  8. ajn9000

    ajn9000 New Member

    This suggests that it would be acceptable, for example, to design a RHI-compliant system with an AW heat pump supplying < 100% of the design heat loss power in conjunction with an existing oil-fired Rayburn (providing convection/radiant space heating plus DHW) & would need to be metered to receive RHI payments.

    If that is that case, the 'adjusting' figure for sizing the AW heat pump would be the figure used to calculate the power of the Rayburn - as there don't seem to be any possibilities for adjustment with the other variables (room heat loss is as calculated, outside design temperatures are as per the table, etc).

    It looks like it might be possible to adjust the base temperature for the Degree Days figure - but that only affects the energy figure so cannot be used to influence sizing?
     
  9. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber

    1) We need to ensure that at the design temperature, 100% of the heating needs are met, bey either a single or a combination of heat sources (bi-valency)
    2) We can then design a bi-valent point, depending upon the sophistication of the controls, as the heat load can actually vary and is almost NEVER the load that is calculated. The control type can be:
    a) Alternative : If the outdoor temperature is below the threshold value, than we stop the heat pump and we start the gas/oil boiler or another energy source​
    b) Parrallel: If the outdoor temperature is below the threshold value, than we start the gas/oil boiler or another energy source, and Hp + gas/oil boiler works together​
    c) Boost / Parallel: If the outdoor temperature is below the threshold value, than we start to monitor the buffer tank / flow temp. If the buffer tank is over a specific period below the buffer set temperature, than we switch on the gas/oil boiler. This means we switch on the gas/oil boiler related to the demand.​

    The heat pump will be metered so that only the correct RHI is paid

    Suggest to discuss this further start a new thread :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  10. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber

    Re: RHI Update - Update for 2016

    Significant changes proposed to the Domestic RHI
    1. Cap on size of systems:
    Biomass and GSHP capped at 25,000kWh Gross
    ASHP capped at 20,000kwh Gross

    With minor tariff changes this means that the MAXIMUM payouts are:
    Biomass: £1285 / annum / £8995 over 7 Years
    GSHP: £3441 / annum / £24087 over 7 Years
    ASHP: £1333 / annum / £9331 over 7 Years

    2. Allowance for third party finance by assignment if RHI
    "we propose to introduce assignment of rights and expect that it would open up the scheme to those least able to pay. As the payments would go direct to the finance provider, the risk of default is reduced so this type of finance should be available even to those with poor credit."

    Minor tidying up:
    183 days occupancy for custom / self new build removed
    GDAR no longer required, still need loft and cavity wall insulation if recommended measures.

    Their goals:
    Spend Less:
    Cap the big systems
    Promote ASHP's
    Promote shared ground loop heat pump systems
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Nostrum

    Nostrum Plumber GSR

    You forgot the binning off of solar thermal :mad2:

    The caps are ridiculous. Biomass is dead in the water now as expected. I can see the logic in some of the changes though.
     
  12. Worcester

    Worcester Plumber

    Sorry forgot ta add that they've removed all support for Solar Thermal...

    The practicality of this means that no renewables systems >20kW will be installed - they'll all go bi-valent above that point, may be lower.

    ASHP's are effectively limited to 18kW and GSHP's to 20KW on single phase because of power requirements.
    Biomass >20kW .. need to do the math.

    They want to see a larger number of smaller systems rather that the bigger ones, effectively a disincentive for larger properties (that have been able to access the funds) from going renewables.

    I can see loads of commission based sales companies going like a rash over ASHP conversions, taking a certain amount of cash and then getting the RHI signed over as well.

    What DECC have failed to take into account is the additional fabric / infrastructure costs need to be done on a property to enable the deployment of heat pumps (insulation / increased radiator sizes x3, no 10mm pipe )

    With the way they are looking at restructuring the RHI could mean greater adoption by Housing Associations etc.
     
  13. JonG1

    JonG1 New Member

    Not had chance to look at this yet, when is planned implementation?
     
  14. Nostrum

    Nostrum Plumber GSR

    It looks pretty obvious that this is just going to become a numbers game now. Maximum deployment in an attempt to meet targets.

    Could go either way really, but I suspect you're right Worcester and the poorest will be targeted by the usual crowd, crash and grab crews. Free heat pumps flying around. Quantity over quality strikes again and then they'll wonder why the technology isn't performing as they'd hoped.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. markfxy

    markfxy Plumber

    are we talking about domestic solar thermal being binned?
     
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